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Thread: Shem & Melchizedek

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    Journeyman Judson50's Avatar
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    Shem & Melchizedek

    So in studying Jesus’ offices, in particular his priesthood, I came across something I’ve not heard; that is, Shem is Melchizedek.

    The proof I came across wasn’t really telling. The only reason I found as to why, Shem was alive at the same time Melchizedek was. And Shem was the first priest?

    I honestly cannot find anything in the Bible that substantiates this.

    Moreover, on the second note, I came across Michael Heiser who stated (in sum) that Melchizedek stands for “my king is Sedeq” rather than King of righteousness. Because I’m the Hebrew you can have two connected nouns:

    Quote
    Surely that's simple! It means "king of righteousness." Well, if you're paying attention to Hebrew morphology (the spelling of the name), it shouldn't mean that. (laughs) The reason is (if you've had Hebrew you'll understand this, so for those in the audience who've had).. breaks down to malki sedeq. Now you'd think you have a simple construct chain there: noun one, noun two; X of Y. But you don't—because of the "ee" ending (the "y" ending). By rule of Hebrew grammar, you are not supposed to have an attached suffix between two nouns in the construct state, but that's what you've got here! So you can't really translate it "king of righteousness." It would be better to say "my king is righteous." They're kind of the same idea, but it's not really the same idea. "King of righteousness" and "my king is righteous." Those are two related but kind of different concepts. So even the name is controversial. In fact, if you want to be really literal, you could translate it (and many scholars do), "My king is Sedeq." That's the second noun there, that some would translate "righteous" or "righteousness." Why would scholars do something goofy like that? Why not just go with "my king is righteous?" Yes, they can be grammar nerds and say we can't say "king of righteousness" but let's just go with "my king is righteous." What's this thing with "my king is Sedeq?" That's just odd. Well, there's actually a Canaanite deity named Sedeq, and since this is pre-Israelite (this is the era before Jerusalem—"king of Salem"—before David's conquest of it), we're not in the land. We don't have the Promised Land thing yet. This is Abraham in Genesis 14. This is Canaanite turf. So Melchizedek could have been named after this non-Israelite deity. "I'm Melichizedek. My king is Sedeq, this pagan deity." Well, then why is Abraham being blessed by him? Who is Sedeq? Is this another name for Yahweh? Are Yahweh and Sedeq maybe the same in Israelite thinking? Just the name gets you into all these areas that are really gnarly. They're not easy.
    END QUOTE


    If you listen to his podcast, he states that Sedeq is the most high god in cannaite religion and the cannanites just called, who we know as YHWH) Sedeq. He ties it into “Sedeq” being the most high God and how people other than Jews, worshiped a Most High God but this Most High God only established the unique relationship with the Hebrews; thus only to the Hebrews he revealed his Memorial name (YHWH) and how he only blesses through Abraham’s seed etc. this the reason the Cannanite dirty blessed Abraham and the world was blessed through the Hebrew ect. He also states this is possible because Sedeq was the king of Salem; which ironically becomes Jerusalem.

    While all that sounds very interesting, One would think the Hebrews would have documented that, like they did everything else. Especially something so important. Right? Also throughout all Jewish literature, there is no consistent explanation of who Melchizedek is. (Michael admits this). There are theories of Him being Elohim, michael the arch angle, another angel, YHWH ect.

    So any thoughts?


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    "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” - Isaiah 30:21

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Then... there's this guy:


    Jos 10:1 Now it came to pass, when Adonizedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them;
    Jos 10:2 That they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all the men thereof were mighty.
    Jos 10:3 Wherefore Adonizedek king of Jerusalem sent unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying,
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Journeyman Judson50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Then... there's this guy:


    Jos 10:1 Now it came to pass, when Adonizedek king of Jerusalem had heard how Joshua had taken Ai, and had utterly destroyed it; as he had done to Jericho and her king, so he had done to Ai and her king; and how the inhabitants of Gibeon had made peace with Israel, and were among them;
    Jos 10:2 That they feared greatly, because Gibeon was a great city, as one of the royal cities, and because it was greater than Ai, and all the men thereof were mighty.
    Jos 10:3 Wherefore Adonizedek king of Jerusalem sent unto Hoham king of Hebron, and unto Piram king of Jarmuth, and unto Japhia king of Lachish, and unto Debir king of Eglon, saying,
    So is that Adoni and Zedek(Sedeq)? MasterLord of Righteousness?


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    Journeyman Judson50's Avatar
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    Interesting


    צֶדֶק

    'ădônı̂y-tsedeq

    ad-o''-nee-tseh'-dek

    From H113 and H6664; lord of justice; Adoni-Tsedek, a Canaanitish king: - Adonizedec.


    אָדוֹן

    'âdôn 'âdôn

    aw-done', aw-done'

    From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine): - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.




    H6664

    צֶדֶק

    tsedeq

    tseh'-dek

    From H6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).


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    "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” - Isaiah 30:21

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson50 View Post
    So is that Adoni and Zedek(Sedeq)? MasterLord of Righteousness?


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    Well, he really wasn't all that righteous/just towards Israel.

    He among others got a foot placed on his neck, then hanged on a tree.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Shem & Melchizedek

    Hmmm

    H6664

    צֶדֶק

    tsedeq (841c); from an unused word; rightness, righteousness: — accurate (1), fairly (1), just (10), just cause (1), justice (3), righteous (15), righteously (6), righteousness (76), righteousness' (1), rightly (1), vindication (1), what is right (3).

    H6663

    צָדַק

    tsâdaq

    tsaw-dak'

    A primitive root; to be (causatively make) right (in a moral or forensic sense): - cleanse, clear self, (be, do) just (-ice, -ify, -ify self), (be, turn to) righteous (-ness).


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    "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.” - Isaiah 30:21

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    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    I believe that Shem being Melchizedek is from the Jewish Talmud (it's a very old tradition).

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    I believe that Shem being Melchizedek is from the Jewish Talmud (it's a very old tradition).
    Yep, and though intriguing, is not provable.

    I believe that the Hebrew writer, by the Holy Spirit, used Melchizedek for a type of Christ's priesthood because of it's mystery and similarity, but was not saying that Melchizedek was a Christophany.

    I believe that he was a literal man, descended from Adam and was a literal king of Salem.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Over 4000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judson50 View Post
    Interesting


    צֶדֶק

    'ădônı̂y-tsedeq

    ad-o''-nee-tseh'-dek

    From H113 and H6664; lord of justice; Adoni-Tsedek, a Canaanitish king: - Adonizedec.


    אָדוֹן

    'âdôn 'âdôn

    aw-done', aw-done'

    From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine): - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with “Adoni-”.




    H6664

    צֶדֶק

    tsedeq

    tseh'-dek

    From H6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    Adoni-Tzedek would also be understood as "My Master is Tzedek", (Adoni(y) = "my Master"). However, concerning your OP, what Heiser says about Melki-Tzedek possibly getting his name from the Tzedek-god of the Canaanites is poor speculation, but it does seem that the same thinking may pertain much more so to Adoni-Tzedek.

    Tzemach Tzedek ~ Tzemach Tzaddik ~ Meshiah

    Jeremiah 23:5
    5 Behold, the days come, says YHWH, that I will raise unto David a Tzemach Tzaddik, and he shall reign [as] king and do wisely, and shall execute just-judgment and righteousness, (tzedakah), in the land.


    Now perhaps connect this name, "Branch", (Tzemach), to what is said of Meshiah in Zechariah.

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    Mel was a man of God who served as a priest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Mel was a man of God who served as a priest.
    And there would not be anything wrong with him being Shem because the Master is Kohen-Priest according to the order of Melki-Tzedek.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    For those who believe scripture Melchizedek still lived in the the first century CE.

    "Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives." (Hebrews 7:8)

    The Anointed One is not only a King, but he is a Priest forever of the order of Melchizedek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    For those who believe scripture Melchizedek still lived in the the first century CE.

    "Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives." (Hebrews 7:8)

    The Anointed One is not only a King, but he is a Priest forever of the order of Melchizedek.
    Likewise, for those who believe scripture, Moses, Abraham, and the fathers were also living in the first century, (Mat 17:3, 22:31-32).

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Likewise, for those who believe scripture, Moses, Abraham, and the fathers were also living in the first century, (Mat 17:3, 22:31-32).
    You need to sleep on it.

    Sleep is the term for the unconscious state of those who have eternal life.

    Eternal life is a gift from Jesus Christ on behalf of our Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    You need to sleep on it.

    Sleep is the term for the unconscious state of those who have eternal life.

    Eternal life is a gift from Jesus Christ on behalf of our Father.
    Having slept for the Lazarus days spoken of in Daniel I know whereof I speak.

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