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Thread: Grace: God isn't mad at sin, or just isn't doing anything about it at the moment?

  1. #166
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Col 3:24-25.

    He's talking to and about believers.
    Yep, the "reward of the inheritance, for you serve..."

    We see this all throughout scripture.

    Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    There are rewards for our service, and JOY is right up there at the top.

    Philippians 4:1 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.

    1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

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    Inhabiting the Kingdom is not the issue...those in Christ are already transferred there. But inheriting the Kingdom, evidently meaning a position of service and authority there, appears to be earned or lost here and now depending on how we run this race.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Yep, the "reward of the inheritance, for you serve..."

    We see this all throughout scripture.
    Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

    There are rewards for our service, and JOY is right up there at the top.
    Philippians 4:1 Therefore, my brethren dearly beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.

    1 Thessalonians 2:19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?
    "Christ in us...the hope of glory." Paul told the Colossians that that was the hope they must not lose hold of or be defrauded of. Salvation is secure but much else we can have eternally is at stake.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Inhabiting the Kingdom is not the issue...those in Christ are already transferred there. But inheriting the Kingdom, evidently meaning a position of service and authority there, appears to be earned or lost here and now depending on how we run this race.
    Hmmm....good point, and worthy of a deeper look.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Opinions differ on the scope of God's dealing with sin by the Cross, as far as how He views the lost and their sin today. Some say that, having reconciled all to Himself, God is not angry at all with anyone and wants people to believe that and be saved. Others agree with the above but add that His wrath is currently suspended by His grace, but the wrath is still there against all who love sin and reject Christ. Those are the two main positions I'm familiar with; there may be others.

    What is your view?
    There are historically 4 views.

    The Ransom Theory
    Christus Victor
    The Satisfaction Theory
    The Penal Substitution Theory

    In the former two theories, God isn't angry at mankind, and never was. The devil enslaved mankind, and the work of the cross either (a) paid the devil a ransom, thus freeing mankind, or (b) defeated the devil, freeing his hostages in the process.

    In the satisfaction theory, God is angry with mankind because of sin, and Christ's death appeases God.

    In the penal substitution theory, God isn't necessarily angry with mankind, but His character demands that he vindicate the just and punish the guilty. In this case, Christ's death allows/allowed God to satisfy the demands of His nature, without destroying mankind.

    All 4 theories can be supported from Scripture, often from the same verses.

    The Ransom Theory and Christus Victor are both ancient views of the church, which go back practically to the time of the apostles.

    The Satisfaction Theory was crafted by St Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th/12th century, largely to combat the apostatizing of those who believed that Christ had failed to return 1000 years later, as promised by the book of Revelation.

    The Penal Substitution Theory is part of Reformed Theology, and is therefore primarily concerned with just how wrong the Catholic church can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Inhabiting the Kingdom is not the issue...those in Christ are already transferred there. But inheriting the Kingdom, evidently meaning a position of service and authority there, appears to be earned or lost here and now depending on how we run this race.
    Nope - the kingdom: eternal life, is...the issue.

    Specifically, the conduct of the possessor of said inheritance: of eternal life; in contrast to the conduct of the lost.

    Acts 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

    2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    Said light? The love of God for us in His Son, by the Cross...

    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    In contrast...

    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

    6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

    The bought with a price is the only reward he mentions there, by the way - the reward of eternal life.

    It's basically...

    Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    At the same time, he no more goes into the reward of said inheritance there, than he does in Romans 6.

    And Corinthians is based on the doctrine later laid out in more detail, in Romans.

    "The reward of the inheritance" (the issue of rewards) is an issue different from the issue of "inherit the kingdom" (the issue of eternal life).

    _____________

    Note:

    Corinthians is "reproof" of behavior not in line with the "doctrine" or instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim. 3:16,17) merely laid out in more detail, later in Romans.

    Just as Galatians (also written way before Romans) is "correction" of belief not in line with the "doctrine" or instruction in righteousness" (2 Tim. 3:16,17) later laid out in more detail, in Romans.

    (As in Romans itself; evident throughout both Galatians and the two Corinthians Epistles, is that Paul had long taught and preached much of the basic material in Romans and Ephesians, long before he wrote either of those two later writings).

    Rom. 5:8

  11. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Inhabiting the Kingdom is not the issue...those in Christ are already transferred there. But inheriting the Kingdom, evidently meaning a position of service and authority there, appears to be earned or lost here and now depending on how we run this race.
    The reward is eternal life.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The reward is eternal life.
    Eternal life is a gift, not a reward.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Eternal life is a gift, not a reward.
    Depends on where and how the word "reward" is found being used.

    Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

    Isaiah 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

    Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Eternal life is a gift, not a reward.
    The gift is the inheritance.

    The inheritance is only given to children.

    No one is a child unless they become one.

    No one becomes a child unless chosen by God.

    God only chooses those who obey Him.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Inhabiting the Kingdom is not the issue...those in Christ are already transferred there. But inheriting the Kingdom, evidently meaning a position of service and authority there, appears to be earned or lost here and now depending on how we run this race.
    The inheritance is eternal life.

    Matthew 19:29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

    Luke 10:25[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    We'll see if inheriting the Kingdom is automatic regardless of the believer's run of the race.

    Run so that you may win the prize...or run knowing you've already won it? Pick one.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?

    BE NOT DECEIVED:

    neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    Do you really believe the Corinthians were being deceived into thinking unbelievers could inherit the Kingdom? No.

    Were many of those very sins being practiced in the Corinthian church? Yes.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Can believers practice unrighteousness?

    Paul:

    Neither yield ye your members as instruments of
    unrighteousness unto sin:

    Peter:

    And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Can believers practice unrighteousness?

    Yes.

    Should they?
    No.

    Are you about protecting truth, or protecting feelings?

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