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Thread: 58 Dead, 500 Plus Wounded

  1. #46
    This is definitely Lower Wacker Drive. musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    It was the impression I had got until looking at some facts, obviously cities have more deaths due to population density, but when looked at per head.



    There a few of these maps but most paint the same pictures with darker colours being higher density and more shootings per head.
    The point is, again, the areas where legal ownership is restricted always have consistently high rates of gun crime, which the laws purportedly are supposed to prevent, but do not.

    Instead, you end up with citizens living in areas where gun policy works against them but does nothing to deter criminals...it's easier for criminals to get guns in Cook County (Chicago) that law-abiding citizens. Same goes for pretty much every major urban area.

    Now guess what the governments of those areas all have in common.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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  3. #47
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
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    You will find the same pattern in the stats, thought I appreciate the difference. That is why my ball park stats earlier had lots of ranges and caviates, there are roughly one no homicide death for every homicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Learn to pick appropriate statistics.

    This thread is about murder, not gun deaths.

    TOL mobile app


    Is that better?
    SJKW Extraordinaire

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  5. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Learn to pick appropriate statistics.

    This thread is about murder, not gun deaths.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using TOL mobile app
    good catch, Suicide is the same no matter where you go. in fact there a lot of countries that have zero gun ownership that have suicide rates through the roof.

  6. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    You will find the same pattern in the stats, thought I appreciate the difference. That is why my ball park stats earlier had lots of ranges and caviates, there are roughly one no homicide death for every homicide.
    No you won't. suicide skews the averages a lot. more people commit suicide than harm others through murder.

  7. #50
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
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    I appreciate the difficulties of trying to do gun control at local levels, I also appreciate that other factors such as gang culture, drugs, urban deprivation can has a large an effect as gun control.

    That's why i prefer to look at comparing the UK and Europe to the states, than between differences in different US cities & states even though there may be greater cultural differences.

    I can't see how city or even state wide gun control could work, when guns just move across state and city borders.
    SJKW Extraordinaire

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  9. #51
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffblue101 View Post
    No you won't. suicide skews the averages a lot. more people commit suicide than harm others through murder.
    Did you see the map I just posted above? Some changes but not massive. The big cluster is the south and south west, not in the urban areas.
    SJKW Extraordinaire

  10. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffblue101 View Post
    good catch, Suicide is the same no matter where you go. in fact there a lot of countries that have zero gun ownership that have suicide rates through the roof.
    A quick look at a few stats i've seen UK suicide rates at 7.2 to 10.8 per 100,000, and US and 12.8 per 100,000. It doesn't swing the stats like you think it does.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    Did you see the map I just posted above? Some changes but not massive. The big cluster is the south and south west, not in the urban areas.
    are we looking at the same map, all the dark red areas are on top of major population centers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    A quick look at a few stats i've seen UK suicide rates at 7.2 to 10.8 per 100,000, and US and 12.8 per 100,000. It doesn't swing the stats like you think it does.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate
    it does, in countries where gun ownership is higher people use a gun as the preferred method of suicide, so it skews gun deaths significantly.

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    Ever the opportunist, that Hillary.....she makes me sick
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Ever the ignorant opportunist, that Hillary.....she makes me sick
    correction

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  17. #57
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffblue101 View Post
    it does, in countries where gun ownership is higher people use a gun as the preferred method of suicide, so it skews gun deaths significantly.
    I'd agree when looking at a raw numbers homicides is a better figure to use.

    In the last few years the UK has been running at 50 - 60 gun homicides per year, the US 8,000 to 10,000 and the numbers thankfully dropping. Once you adjust that for population differences, it will be 300 to, 8,000 to 10,000.

    The gun suicides, accidents and justified killings will move the total up to 33,000 per annum.(2014 stats)

    I find this sites good for raw stats which aren't skewed by either side of the arguement http://www.gunpolicy.org.
    SJKW Extraordinaire

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  19. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffblue101 View Post
    are we looking at the same map, all the dark red areas are on top of major population centers.
    Yes, but as always people read what they want into it, you see the dots over the cities, i see the big red blob over the Mississippi basin.

    Anyway i'm off to bed, stay safe all.
    SJKW Extraordinaire

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    A woman screamed at a crowd of Las Vegas concertgoers that they were “all going to die tonight” just 45 minutes before a gunman opened fire, killing at least 50, according to a concertgoer interviewed by KSNV, NBC’s Las Vegas affiliate.

    Brianna Hendricks, who attended the Route 91 Harvest Festival with her mother to celebrate her 21st birthday, described the moment a woman screamed “they’re all around…you’re all going to ****ing die today,” as reported the Daily Mail.

    “There was a lady who pushed her way forward into the concert venue and into the first row, and she started messing with another lady, and told us that we were all going to die tonight,” Hendricks told KSNV.
    “It was about 45 minutes before the shots were actually fired,” she continued. “But then she was escorted out by security.”

    Hendricks and her mother left the concert before the shooting began, and heard the shots ring out just as they returned to their room.

    “Obviously she was telling us that — either to warn us, or to warn us that we were all going to die and she was part of it,” Hendricks added.

    Hendricks described the woman and a man she was with as Hispanic and about 5-foot-5.

    When asked why the pair had been escorted out, Hendricks replied: “Because she had been messing with the lady in front of her and telling her that she was going to die. That we were all going to die.”
    “None of us knew that it was going to be serious.”

    At around 10 p.m. Sunday, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock fired on concertgoers during a during a performance by country musician Jason Aldean. Police said more that 50 people were killed in the attack — with over 200 injured — making it the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    Paddock was later shot and killed in a hotel room at the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino by police.

    Video of interview here
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    I can't believe we don't have a motive for this guy yet, did he really do this atrocity for no reason whatsoever?

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