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Thread: 58 Dead, 500 Plus Wounded

  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    The people in the church in Texas would have been safer had they been armed.
    Those people would have been safer if the shooter hadn't been able to easily purchase the weapon he walked into that church with. And other churches and vacations spots and schools would be safer too.

    The rules said nobody in the church was allowed a weapon. Your precious regulations cost lives.
    I live in a community where we don't have that prohibition. I don't know of anyone who carries a gun to church. And my laws aren't on the books yet, so no. Because I favor law it doesn't follow that I'm a fan of every law.

    If there had been just one good man who was willing to ignore your death-trap regulations, 27 lives could have been saved.
    Just to really underscore your essentially creative narrative here, the regulation in place wasn't mine. I didn't vote on it and I haven't supported it.

    What I do support is universal gun laws banning certain types of weapons and the aids that make other weapons more likely to be effective as a means of killing large numbers of people in short order.

    But you want more.
    Rather, I want the right sort of restrictions and laws and I want them universally applied, because I also want the much lower incidents of what happened in Texas, and Florida, and Las Vegas, in schoolyards and on university campuses, etc.
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  3. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Those people would have been safer if the shooter hadn't been able to easily purchase the weapon he walked into that church with.
    Just to really underscore your essentially creative narrative:

    Those rules already exist.

    He ignored your regulations; the dead people followed them.

    You want more rules that would have hindered outsiders from intervening.

    I live in a community where we don't have that prohibition. I don't know of anyone who carries a gun to church. And my laws aren't on the books yet, so no. Because I favor law it doesn't follow that I'm a fan of every law.
    You have no understanding of the law.

    Regulations that say people cannot own things are not laws.

    The regulation in place wasn't mine. I didn't vote on it and I haven't supported it.
    No. You want more stringent ones.

    What I do support is universal gun laws banning certain types of weapons and the aids that make other weapons more likely to be effective as a means of killing large numbers of people in short order.
    This would do nothing to lower the homicide rate.

    It might shift some numbers around, but it will improve nothing; it will only make the situation worse.

    That's what happens when you ignore the law and justice, instead asserting your own regulations as a cure. You make things worse.

    Regulations do not protect people. Pretending your rules are the law destroys people.

    Rather, I want the right sort of restrictions and laws and I want them universally applied, because I also want the much lower incidents of what happened in Texas, and Florida, and Las Vegas, in schoolyards and on university campuses, etc.
    You have the appeal to emotion well practiced.

    Got anything rational?

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  5. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Just to really underscore your essentially creative narrative:
    Those rules already exist. He ignored your regulations; the dead people followed them.
    Parroting my form really doesn't help if you don't get the substance right. I'm for universal gun laws that aren't currently on the books and that would take the sort of weapon used out of the hands of people like the killer. Without universality the best of intentions works an unintended harm.

    You want more rules that would have hindered outsiders from intervening.
    I want universal laws that will make it harder and harder for people like that killer to possess weapons that would allow for what happened in that and other churches.

    You have no understanding of the law.
    I'm a U.S. lawyer licensed to practice and teach the law. You're some foreigner with an attitude. But thanks for the chuckle.

    Regulations that say people cannot own things are not laws.
    You're just having all sorts of internal conversations, aren't you.

    No. You want more stringent ones. This would do nothing to lower the homicide rate.
    To believe as Stripe would have you is to believe the 547 people who've died in mass shootings or the 1,854 people wounded in mass shootings so far this year would somehow be killed or wounded by another means. Now he can say, as Yor did, that he finds the number (among the much larger national homicide and violent crime victims tally) statistically insignificant, but that's just a poor way to calculate the human cost and bad math in nearly every meaningful sense.

    Regulations do not protect people. Pretending your rules are the law destroys people.
    Rather, laws can help or hinder. Gun laws that vary from place to place, state to state, undermine the efficacy of any. We need universal and strong gun laws. When we have them we'll have the corresponding drop over time in mass shootings and a commiserate decline in the loss of life and value they inflict here.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  7. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Without universality the best of intentions works an unintended harm.
    And with universality you get universal harm.

    I want universal laws that will make it harder and harder for people like that killer to possess weapons that would allow for what happened in that and other churches.
    You will not get what you want.

    I'm a U.S. lawyer licensed to practice and teach the law. You're some foreigner with an attitude. But thanks for the chuckle.
    Racist.

    The law is not confined to the US. And people do not need a license to understand it.

    To believe as Stripe would have you is to believe the 547 people who've died in mass shootings or the 1,854 people wounded in mass shootings so far this year would somehow be killed or wounded by another means.
    Nope.

    Making things up doesn't help you.

    Your regulations helped keep them in harm's way.

    Now he can say, as Yor did, that he finds the number (among the much larger national homicide and violent crime victims tally) statistically insignificant, but that's just a poor way to calculate the human cost and bad math in nearly every meaningful sense.
    Nope.

    We're both looking for solutions, remember?

    Quit playing silly games.

    Rather, laws can help or hinder.
    The law is always good.

    Regulations can help, but when you do not know the difference between them and the law, you are unqualified to comment.
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  9. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    And with universality you get universal harm.
    All evidence to the contrary in literally every Western democracy where it's in effect.

    You will not get what you want.
    Did you lower your voice and point a finger at the screen when you pecked that out? Scary.

    Racist.
    Something else you don't know anything about then. Good to know.

    The law is not confined to the US.
    Our law is. The laws we can alter that will impact the problem here are too.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  11. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    All evidence to the contrary in literally every Western democracy where it's in effect.
    No? You don't see those nations being harmed? Oh, of course not. You avoid anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

    Did you lower your voice and point a finger at the screen when you pecked that out?

    Something else you don't know anything about then. Good to know.
    You think my ability to comprehend or comment on the law is ruled by where I was born and where I live.

    What else are we going to chalk that up to?

    Our law is.
    Your regulations are.

    More regulations will not solve anything.

    You will not start being a useful part of this conversation until you stop conflating the law with US regulations.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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  13. #547
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    Meanwhile, today in California:

    Five people are dead and two others were left wounded in a shooting spree that began at a home in Northern California on Tuesday and ended at an elementary school, officials there say...
    Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said authorities recovered a semiautomatic rifle and two handguns they believe the gunman used. Yahoo News


    The definition of insanity is also doing nothing and hoping for different results.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  15. #548
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Edit, because this is too serious to play around with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    No? You don't see those nations being harmed? Oh, of course not. You avoid anything that doesn't fit your narrative.
    I think you believe in a harm where I'm speaking of an actual one that doesn't require my philosophical agreement to manifest.

    More regulations will not solve anything.
    Doing nothing changes nothing. Doing something will involve the law, as every other Western democracy has learned to their good.
    Last edited by Town Heretic; November 14th, 2017 at 07:23 PM.
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  17. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Doing nothing changes nothing.
    Again with the false accusations?

    Can you name someone who advocates doing nothing? Thought not.

    Doing something will involve the law.
    But all you ever talk about are regulations.

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  19. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Again with the false accusations?
    That's funny.

    Can you name someone who advocates doing nothing?
    I can name a number of people here whose position will accomplish nothing. Like Yor and his unspecified/mystery laws. Or we could do what you have in mind and...do...what again?

    But the whole quote was: Doing nothing changes nothing. Doing something will involve the law, as every other Western democracy has learned to their good.

    Thought not.
    It really comes through.

    But all you ever talk about are regulations.
    Laws. I want Congress to pen them.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  21. #551
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Is what Paddock did a war crime? If we were at war, and he was a combatant, was that a war crime?
    As far as I can tell, yes. Attacking noncombatant civilians is a war crime.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    The people in the church in Texas would have been safer had they been armed.
    Absolutely. And we've learned further, that had the civilian hero with an AR, kept his magazines loaded (empty magazines are useless; he had to take the time when seconds mattered to load them), he would have saved more lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    The rules said nobody in the church was allowed a weapon. . . .
    If there had been just one good man who was willing to ignore your death-trap regulations, 27 lives could have been saved.
    Even if only one or two would have been saved....
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Those people would have been safer if the shooter hadn't been able to easily purchase the weapon he walked into that church with. And other churches and vacations spots and schools would be safer too.
    And we know now that the problem was that the FBI background check system failed. Kelley should not have been able to purchase any guns, let alone an AR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I don't know of anyone who carries a gun to church.
    I do. Laws in most states forbid open carry anyway, and even states where it isn't forbidden, it's practically illegal, because the police will be called, and the person openly carrying can be deemed unsuitable to own guns. So you wouldn't know by looking at them, whether they are armed or not.

    (States like Bernie Sanders' Vermont, and Alaska, don't have any limits on carrying, either concealed or openly.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    What I do support is universal gun laws banning certain types of weapons and the aids that make other weapons more likely to be effective as a means of killing large numbers of people in short order.
    This is your whole issue. 'Not dismissing it, just making it clear for everybody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    . . .I also want the much lower incidents of what happened in Texas, and Florida, and Las Vegas, in schoolyards and on university campuses, etc.
    The Virginia Tech mass shooting shooting rampage terrorist war criminal only had handguns.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

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  23. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Meanwhile, today in California:

    Five people are dead and two others were left wounded in a shooting spree that began at a home in Northern California on Tuesday and ended at an elementary school, officials there say...
    Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston said authorities recovered a semiautomatic rifle and two handguns they believe the gunman used. Yahoo News

    The definition of insanity is also doing nothing and hoping for different results.

    I went to Drudge to see how the story was being handled and I can't even find it on the page. The shooter not being a Muslim, a person of color or an immigrant may have something to do with that.

    Drudge does have a map of UFO sightings, if anyone's interested.
    So keep your candles burning
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  25. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I can name a number of people here whose position will accomplish nothing. Like Yor and his unspecified/mystery laws. Or we could do what you have in mind and...do...what again?
    So you don't know what he proposes, but you're sure it won't work.

    And you do not know anyone who proposes doing nothing, which is the false accusations you made.

    Laws. I want Congress to pen them.
    Too late. The law has already been written. Congress can make regulations only.

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  27. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    No? You don't see those nations being harmed? Oh, of course not. You avoid anything that doesn't fit your narrative.

    Did you lower your voice and point a finger at the screen when you pecked that out?

    You think my ability to comprehend or comment on the law is ruled by where I was born and where I live.

    What else are we going to chalk that up to?

    Your regulations are.

    More regulations will not solve anything.

    You will not start being a useful part of this conversation until you stop conflating the law with US regulations.
    No, it's based on your lack of even a layman's understanding of it. You surely haven't forgotten the thread you started where you were embarrassingly schooled on just the basics?
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    No, it's based on your lack of even a layman's understanding of it. You surely haven't forgotten the thread you started where you were embarrassingly schooled on just the basics?
    Who are you?

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