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Thread: Top 10 Reasons the Universe is Electric (Electric Universe Theory)

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    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Stipe prepares another finely-crafted argument:

    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post


    You're so stupid.
    Well done, Stipe.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Stipe prepares another finely-crafted argument:Well done, Stipe.
    No problem.

    It's good to point out how insane your cut-and-paste ramblings are.

    You're on a par with those flat-Earth freaks.

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    I've added a transcript of each video. Just go to the post containing the video and the transcript will be underneath the video. This should make it much easier to quote the videos in subsequent posts.

    It MAY have the additional benefit of preventing people from "disproving" claims that are never made - but I doubt it.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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  7. #154
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    This video is not part of the "Top Ten Reasons" series but I thought it was quite good and really gives a good taste of just how the Electric Universe people think and make arguments and since I don't know how long it will be before a new "Top Ten" video will come out, I thought I'd share it here. Enjoy...

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    This video is not part of the "Top Ten Reasons" series but I thought it was quite good and really gives a good taste of just how the Electric Universe people think and make arguments and since I don't know how long it will be before a new "Top Ten" video will come out, I thought I'd share it here. Enjoy...

    I've had time to watch about two thirds of the video so far, and out seems to contain no more that misguided assertion. No model, no specific experiment that had a result different from prediction, nothing quantitative at all, just self righteous hand waving.

    Case in point: he asserts that orbits can only work in Newtonian physics and that relativity can't so orbits. He seems unaware that one of the first successes of Relativity was explaining the orbital precession of Mercury, which Newton's classical theory failed to handle.

    And there's lots more. It is a joke, Clete. A crank science joke - don't get taken in by it, as it can't end well for you.
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    The Electric Universe theory is very interesting as it has been scientifically proven that the image of Jesus on the Turin Shroud was produced by Plasma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4c4812XA9A

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    The Electric Universe theory is very interesting as it has been scientifically proven that the image of Jesus on the Turin Shroud was produced by Plasma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4c4812XA9A
    The scientist featured in that Youtube video said this in an interview:

    "It’s a hypothesis, not a theory because it is not yet validated by science. In fact,at this moment, the body image can not be completely explained nor reproduced by science.
    I am, however, convinced that the Coronal Discharge played an important role in the body image formation.

    From a religious point of view, I am sure that the Holy Shroud is authentic and it is the most important Relic of Christianity. This because, following a precise question of mine, I had a personal “answer” in 1998 in front of the Relic."


    So your 'scientifically proven' assertion is not even supported by the man who did the work. You should retract this claim of yours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    The scientist featured in that Youtube video said this in an interview:

    "It’s a hypothesis, not a theory because it is not yet validated by science. In fact,at this moment, the body image can not be completely explained nor reproduced by science.
    I am, however, convinced that the Coronal Discharge played an important role in the body image formation.

    From a religious point of view, I am sure that the Holy Shroud is authentic and it is the most important Relic of Christianity. This because, following a precise question of mine, I had a personal “answer” in 1998 in front of the Relic."


    So your 'scientifically proven' assertion is not even supported by the man who did the work. You should retract this claim of yours.
    Where in the documentary does it say that?

    What Doctor Giulio Fanti does say (at 41:35 minutes) is; “It is necessary to calibrate very well the energy. Only the range 97 to 98 [%] it is possible to obtain an image. The corona discharge gives us the most number of compatibility between the experimental results, and what we see on the Shroud.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    Where in the documentary does it say that?

    What Doctor Giulio Fanti does say (at 41:35 minutes) is; “It is necessary to calibrate very well the energy. Only the range 97 to 98 [%] it is possible to obtain an image. The corona discharge gives us the most number of compatibility between the experimental results, and what we see on the Shroud.”
    YouTube videos aren't very his source material, so I found this instead:

    http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/Fanti-refl.pdf
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    YouTube videos aren't very his source material, so I found this instead:

    http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/Fanti-refl.pdf
    I see so you took selective parts of his answers without showing the questions, rather than showing what was actually said and you have assumed that this is a genuine document. That's hardly scientific now is it. So lets ASSUME this is a genuine statement he gave, this is what was said by Dr Fanti in full:

    Q3. Do you believe the Shroud is likely the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, a fake
    relic, or are you uncertain what to believe?

    I must separate scientific aspects from religious ones.
    From a scientific point of view both my researches and the studies performed by
    the students (of Mechanical Engineering) in thesis with me ALL lead to a
    confirmation of the authenticity of the Shroud even if, up to now, no sure proof
    has been evidenced.

    From a religious point of view, I am sure that the Holy Shroud is authentic and it
    is the most important Relic of Christianity. This because, following a precise
    question of mine, I had a personal “answer” in 1998 in front of the Relic.


    Q9. Do you favor or believe any of the current theories on how the image got
    onto the cloth? If so please name the theory.

    It’s a hypothesis, not a theory because it is not yet validated by science. In fact,
    at this moment, the body image cannot be completely explained nor reproduced
    by science.

    I am, however, convinced that the Coronal Discharge played an important role in
    the body image formation.

    So he does believe it is the genuine burial shroud of Christ which he confirms in the documentary and that a plasma coronal discharge was involved in forming the image on the shroud which he also confirms in the documentary. It seems you commented on the documentary without even watching it first, not very scientific of you at all. You should retract your groundless assertion and in future do the research before voicing twisted half truths.

  15. #161
    TOL Legend Clete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    I've had time to watch about two thirds of the video so far, and out seems to contain no more that misguided assertion. No model, no specific experiment that had a result different from prediction, nothing quantitative at all, just self righteous hand waving.

    Case in point: he asserts that orbits can only work in Newtonian physics and that relativity can't so orbits. He seems unaware that one of the first successes of Relativity was explaining the orbital precession of Mercury, which Newton's classical theory failed to handle.

    And there's lots more. It is a joke, Clete. A crank science joke - don't get taken in by it, as it can't end well for you.
    It's interesting that every time you bring up something they seem not to know about, it's always something that they openly acknowledge.

    Further, you criticize Youtube videos as though they are publications of the journal Science. They aren't! It is not the purpose of these videos to present a rigorously detailed presentation of a scientific theory. In fact, it seems to me that the purpose of this video in particular is to show that so called settled science isn't nearly as settled as the main stream science establishment would have you believe.

    As for the Electric Universes ideas about gravity, I don't really buy any of it. But not because the videos fail to present some testable prediction that I'd expect to read about in a science journal but because I've spent the time and effort it took to find answers to the questions they pose concerning their idea that gravity acts on a body instantaneously.

    That does not, however, mean that I ignore the fact that they point out valid rational contradictions inherent in black hole theory, including but not limited to the notion that matter can have infinite mass with no volume which simultaneously is what they claim happens in back holes and is also the reason why nothing can ever go the speed of light. They want to have it both ways and most people are neither informed nor intelligent enough to notice the contradiction.

    Lastly, I'd wager it took you longer to write this five or six sentence post than it would have taken you to watch the rest of the video. In other words I don't believe you watched half of what you claim to have watched. Why not just watch the video and refute it point by point. Not that you'd have to refute the whole video but just take a point here and there and actually refute it. Who is it that you expect to convince with name calling and refuting points that aren't made my presuming that they deny things that they openly acknowledge? The fact is, you do not know what these people believe or say so stop guessing! You guess wrong every time! Just refute what the video says.

    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by WatchmanOnTheWall View Post
    The Electric Universe theory is very interesting as it has been scientifically proven that the image of Jesus on the Turin Shroud was produced by Plasma: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4c4812XA9A
    This is precisely the sort of silliness that makes people discard alternative cosmologies out of hand without even bothering to give them the time of day. There's hardly anything you could have said that would more seriously undermine the whole idea of the Electric Universe in the minds of anyone who considers himself at all scientific. The fact that this guy obtained an image using several hundred volts of electricity over 24 hours of exposure time does not prove "that the image of Jesus on the Turin Shroud was produced by Plasma". It doesn't prove that at all. It's not even evidence that this is the way the image was produced never mind proof. The idea that its proof would be the equivalent of saying that since images are produced digitally in the camera on my desk, therefore images are produced digitally in the camera on the shelf on my wall. That is not even a rational thought process never mind a scientific one. The way one image was produced says nothing at all about how another image was produced.

    Similarly, the EU community itself embraces a number of people that put forward completely crackpot nonsense. This has the effect of discrediting the entire community and every idea they put forward in the minds of those who think critically.

    In any case, this thread is about the electric universe cosmology, not the shroud of Turin. If you want to continue your debate on the authenticity of the shroud, then please start a thread on that topic.

    Clete
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    This is precisely the sort of silliness that makes people discard alternative cosmologies out of hand without even bothering to give them the time of day. There's hardly anything you could have said that would more seriously undermine the whole idea of the Electric Universe in the minds of anyone who considers himself at all scientific. The fact that this guy obtained an image using several hundred volts of electricity over 24 hours of exposure time does not prove "that the image of Jesus on the Turin Shroud was produced by Plasma". It doesn't prove that at all. It's not even evidence that this is the way the image was produced never mind proof. The idea that its proof would be the equivalent of saying that since images are produced digitally in the camera on my desk, therefore images are produced digitally in the camera on the shelf on my wall. That is not even a rational thought process never mind a scientific one. The way one image was produced says nothing at all about how another image was produced.

    Similarly, the EU community itself embraces a number of people that put forward completely crackpot nonsense. This has the effect of discrediting the entire community and every idea they put forward in the minds of those who think critically.

    In any case, this thread is about the electric universe cosmology, not the shroud of Turin. If you want to continue your debate on the authenticity of the shroud, then please start a thread on that topic.

    Clete
    You have missed the point and can not grasp the fact that Dr Fanti's plasma experiment is the first time any evidence has been found as to how the image was made. This clearly shows that the plasma, which is an ionized gas with sufficient energy that free electrons from atoms or molecules can actually coexist, and because as far as we know plasma's are the most common state of matter in the universe, means that this supernatural event perhaps gives us a glimpse into the inner workings of the 'hidden' dimensions of quantum physics and helps explain the split in our reality that took place at the fall of mankind; Which will be mended or reunited when God makes a new Heaven and New Earth, which will be perfect once again.
    Last edited by WatchmanOnTheWall; October 17th, 2017 at 01:27 PM.

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    @Clete, it is a problem that the videos are not rigorous, because there ARE NO rigorous papers detailing a usable theory of EU. The videos just assert things that are demonstrably untrue, like the comments I showed above about Newtonian physics and orbits that you ignored.

    They have nothing to offer until there is something quantitative in the videos or papers.
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