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Thread: Top 10 Reasons the Universe is Electric (Electric Universe Theory)

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    Video #4 is finally out!

    Top 10 Reasons the Universe is Electric: #4 Light Bulbs in Space



    Transcript:

    Spoiler
    00:06
    welcome to space news from the electric
    00:08
    universe brought to you by the
    00:10
    thunderbolts project at Thunderbolts dot
    00:13
    info on this series we are shining a
    00:19
    light on an unresolvable problem for
    00:21
    astrophysicists the challenge of
    00:23
    explaining unimaginably powerful
    00:25
    electromagnetic emissions and energies
    00:27
    in a universe in which electricity
    00:29
    causes nothing in our first three
    00:32
    episodes we explored this question
    00:35
    through our discussion of the stupendous
    00:36
    magnetic and filamentary structures seen
    00:39
    all throughout the visible universe the
    00:42
    features are neither predicted nor
    00:44
    explained in gravity centric cosmology
    00:47
    but they are the expected features of an
    00:49
    electric universe fantastic
    00:51
    electromagnetic phenomena are
    00:53
    increasingly recognized with each
    00:55
    passing year from the powerful electric
    00:58
    fields and supersonic plasma Jets
    01:00
    detected on our own earth to the
    01:03
    mysterious electron acceleration in
    01:06
    Jupiter's aurora and even tremendous
    01:08
    electric currents measured in galactic
    01:11
    Jets yet standard astronomy still holds
    01:14
    two theories in which mechanical and
    01:16
    kinetic processes collisions
    01:19
    explosions gravitational collapse
    01:22
    heating and shock waves produce the
    01:25
    measured electrical effects but it
    01:28
    cannot be a coincidence that ever finer
    01:30
    technological data only increases
    01:32
    astrophysicists expressions of amazement
    01:35
    and perplexity in this episode we will
    01:39
    explain why the discovery of quote giant
    01:42
    light bulbs in space is the forth of ten
    01:45
    reasons why the universe is electric the
    01:49
    Fermi bubbles it is one of a growing
    01:52
    list of astounding mysteries that demand
    01:54
    entirely new theoretical pathways for
    01:58
    over seven years
    01:59
    astronomers have struggled to explain
    02:01
    the presence of the so called Fermi
    02:03
    bubbles giant structures emitting
    02:06
    powerful gamma rays that stretch for
    02:08
    tens of thousands of light-years above
    02:10
    and below the Milky Way's spiral disk
    02:13
    both the structures mind-boggling size
    02:15
    and energetic emissions appeared to pose
    02:17
    intractable problems for astrophysicists
    02:21
    astronomers using the Fermi gamma-ray
    02:23
    Space Telescope discovered the so-called
    02:25
    bubbles in 2010 the energetic lobes
    02:29
    emanating from the Milky Way's Center
    02:31
    have been a source of extreme puzzlement
    02:33
    ever since the 2014 fizzle article
    02:37
    despite extensive analysis Fermi bubbles
    02:40
    defy explanation outlines the mystery as
    02:43
    follows the outlines of the bubbles are
    02:46
    quite sharp and the bubbles themselves
    02:48
    glow in nearly uniform gamma rays over
    02:51
    their colossal surfaces like to 30,000
    02:54
    light years all incandescent bulbs
    02:57
    screwed into the center of the galaxy
    02:59
    their size is another puzzle the
    03:02
    farthest reaches of the Fermi bubbles
    03:04
    both some of the highest energy gamma
    03:06
    rays but there's no discernible cause
    03:08
    for them that far from the galaxy as we
    03:11
    outlined in a recent space news episode
    03:14
    does gravity cause lightning in space it
    03:17
    seems almost beyond belief that
    03:19
    astrophysicists can only visualize
    03:21
    mechanical and kinetic processes even
    03:24
    when observing the unmistakable
    03:25
    signatures of electrical discharge
    03:27
    phenomena the aforementioned phys.org
    03:30
    report poses the question what blew the
    03:33
    bubbles as if air is being expelled from
    03:36
    the galactic center and filling a
    03:38
    balloon like fabric in the vacuum of
    03:41
    space
    03:42
    one theoretical possibility
    03:44
    investigators have proposed is that a
    03:46
    tremendous population of giant stars all
    03:49
    exploded at roughly the same time for
    03:51
    some reason somehow forming the gamma
    03:54
    ray bubbles as noted in the phys.org
    03:57
    report another ad hoc theory for the
    04:00
    quote bubbles is that they quote could
    04:02
    have been created by huge Jets have
    04:04
    accelerated matter blasting out from the
    04:07
    supermassive black hole at the center of
    04:09
    our galaxy
    04:10
    more recently in 2017 astronomers claim
    04:14
    that a so-called giant snack several
    04:16
    million years ago by the hypothetical
    04:18
    black hole believed to be at Sagittarius
    04:20
    a produced the energy that created the
    04:23
    bubbles
    04:24
    the scientists may have forgotten that
    04:27
    the supposed black hole had the
    04:28
    opportunity for another quote snack when
    04:31
    the gas cloud g2 made its
    04:33
    long-anticipated closest approach in
    04:35
    2014 apparently the imagined
    04:39
    gravitational monster was not hungry
    04:41
    leaving the gas cloud intact to the
    04:44
    amazement of astronomers around the
    04:45
    world we again note the irony of
    04:49
    scientists looking to colossal gravity
    04:51
    to explain stupendous electromagnetic
    04:53
    phenomena in this case no less than
    04:57
    quote incandescent bulbs screwed into
    04:59
    the center of our galaxy as we've
    05:02
    reported several times recently the
    05:04
    stupendous electric current in a
    05:06
    galactic jet estimated at 10 to the 18th
    05:09
    power amps or the equivalent to a
    05:11
    trillion bolts of lightning has been
    05:14
    measured by radio astronomers and the
    05:16
    seemingly unfathomable discovery of
    05:18
    radio jets in numerous galaxies in a
    05:21
    distant region of space all spinning in
    05:23
    the same direction will never be
    05:25
    explained by black hole proponents as
    05:28
    we've also discussed several times
    05:30
    recently in the electric universe an
    05:33
    ultra high density energy storage
    05:35
    phenomenon called a plasmoid is at the
    05:38
    core of the Milky Way a kind of load in
    05:41
    the Galactic electrical circuit rather
    05:43
    like a rechargeable battery in a
    05:46
    galactic circuit electrical power flows
    05:48
    inward along the spiral arms lighting
    05:51
    the Stars as it goes and is concentrated
    05:54
    and stored in the central plasmoid when
    05:57
    the plasmoid reaches a threshold density
    06:00
    it discharges usually along the galaxies
    06:03
    spin axis this process has been
    06:06
    replicated in the laboratory with the
    06:08
    plasma focused device the most seemingly
    06:11
    puzzling feature of the bubbles the
    06:13
    presence of the most intense gamma rays
    06:15
    at the outer edges of the bubbles at the
    06:18
    farthest distance from the galactic
    06:19
    center is explicable and indeed
    06:22
    predictable in the electrical
    06:24
    interpretation the father of plasma
    06:27
    cosmology Hannes Alfven proposed that a
    06:30
    plasma formation called a double layer
    06:32
    should be classified as a discrete
    06:34
    celestial object
    06:36
    that explosions of double layers could
    06:38
    be the source of gamma-ray bursts and
    06:40
    mysterious x-ray emissions a double
    06:43
    layer or what is known as a laying
    06:45
    mirror sheath forms between plasma
    06:47
    regions of different properties it's a
    06:50
    complete mystery to ask for physicists
    06:52
    why the most intense gamma rays should
    06:54
    be at the outer edges of the bubbles yet
    06:57
    in the electrical interpretation the
    06:59
    edges of the bubbles delineate the
    07:01
    boundary of the Galactic plasma
    07:03
    environment and that of deep space a
    07:05
    double layer only exists where there is
    07:08
    an electric current flowing through
    07:10
    space plasma in this case the double
    07:13
    layer at the bubbles edge would be like
    07:15
    a giant spherical plate capacitor with
    07:18
    positive charge on one plate and
    07:20
    negative charge on the other charged
    07:23
    particles are accelerated across the
    07:25
    double layer generating electromagnetic
    07:27
    radiation which can include x-rays and
    07:30
    gamma rays the double layer acts as a
    07:33
    boundary effect dissipating electrical
    07:36
    energy in a thin layer plasma scientist
    07:39
    dr. anthony peratt wrote in his book
    07:41
    physics of the plasma universe x-ray and
    07:45
    gamma ray sources are likely to have the
    07:47
    radiative energy supplied by electrical
    07:49
    currents while astronomers continue to
    07:52
    ascribe the bubbles to a mysterious
    07:54
    blast or eruption event millions of
    07:57
    years ago another important feature of
    07:59
    the bubbles completely defies this
    08:01
    notion while affirming the electrical
    08:04
    interpretation in 2013 in the journal
    08:08
    Nature scientists reported the
    08:10
    observation of quote - giant linearly
    08:13
    polarized radio lobes containing three
    08:16
    rich like substructures emanating from
    08:18
    the galactic center the lobes each
    08:20
    extend about 60 degrees in the Galactic
    08:23
    bulge closely corresponding to the Fermi
    08:26
    bubbles and are permeated by strong
    08:28
    magnetic fields of up to 15 micro Gauss
    08:31
    these extremely powerful magnetic fields
    08:35
    follow closely the directions of the
    08:37
    ridges which wind around the flow of
    08:39
    energy as we must find if the ridges in
    08:42
    fact represent electrical currents
    08:46
    critically the width of the ridges is
    08:48
    remarkably constant
    08:50
    at about 300 parsecs like the consistent
    08:54
    width of star-forming filaments the
    08:56
    constant width of the bubbles ridges is
    08:58
    the unmistakable hallmark of lightning
    09:01
    collisions
    09:03
    explosions eruptions geysers shockwaves
    09:08
    heating like countless others stupendous
    09:11
    electromagnetic phenomena in the cosmos
    09:14
    these kinetic and mechanical mechanisms
    09:17
    will never explain the spectacular Fermi
    09:19
    bubbles but why should it be surprising
    09:22
    that electricity is actually the source
    09:24
    of so called giant light bulbs in space
    09:27
    the celestial surprises will surely
    09:30
    continue until the light bulb of new
    09:33
    understanding begins to flicker in the
    09:35
    minds of astronomers illuminating for
    09:38
    them our electric universe
    09:42
    for continuous updates on space news
    09:44
    from the electric universe stay tuned to
    09:47
    Thunderbolts dot info
    09:49
    [Music]
    10:02
    [Music]
    10:12
    [Music]
    10:38
    [Music]
    11:02
    you
    A spoiler box would have been nice... Just sayng...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    A spoiler box would have been nice... Just sayng...
    A spoiler box? I don't think it would have ever occurred to me to use a spoiler box. I wasn't sure anyone was even going to watch the video!
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    A spoiler box? I don't think it would have ever occurred to me to use a spoiler box. I wasn't sure anyone was even going to watch the video!
    The spoiler boxes can be used for more than just spoilers... Haha.

    Here, if only for the timestamps and captions, on mobile your post is really long and takes a while to scroll through, hence the spoiler box.

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    The rate at which the top 10 videos are coming out is painfully slow. Had I known in advance the slaw rate of production I would have probably not started this thread until more had been released. Not that there's anyone seems willing to honestly debate them anyway.

    The following video is already a few years old but the point they make at the end is just so perfectly suited to this thread that I couldn't resist posting it here...

    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    The solar wind is caused by an electric field?

    In physics an electric field applied to charged particles cause them to accelerate. The
    Electric universe theory says that the solar wind is the result of such a field, and the Sun is electric, not fusion based.

    Maxwell’s theory of acceleration, however, talks about a time variable field, not a fixed one, and what’s more the solar wind contains both positive and negatively charged ions (protons and electrons mainly). An electric sun would be positively charged and all the negatively charged electrons would be attached to it – not be pushed out from the Sun on a solar wind. This fact proves the Sun is not electric.

    -- https://archive.is/3pLPJ

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    There's a reason these forces that are orders of magnitude stronger than gravity dont hold sway at cosmological distances. I'll break it down into two parts:

    1: Electric field strength
    Everywhere in the universe that you care to look, whenever you have a positive charge, you also have a negative charge, weather it's in plasmas, condensed matter or degenerate matter. The effect of this is that when you sum the positive charge field and the negative charge field, they cancel out at distances very near the source.

    2: Magnetic field strength
    Magnetic field strength is also a lot more significant at close distances than gravitational fields, but magnetic flux always forms closed loops in space. This means that it effectively does not follow the inverse square law, but, instead, an inverse cube law. This makes magnetic field strength drop off much, much more quickly with distance. I have two large (baseball sized) neodymium magnets that would utterly crush all the bones in your hand if you were to place them on either side of it, but at a distance of a couple of feet from each other there is no perceptible interaction.

    This is why gravity dominates at cosmological distances. It follows the inverse square law and is unrestrained by any form of "antigravity" that would cancel it out.

    'dark matter is an idiotic idea':
    I don't think you understand what "dark matter" is. Its not ghostly magic undiscovered particles (though you may want to read the wikipedia page on the *known* properties of neutrinos). All dark matter is is matter that does not emit detectable radiation. It could (and probably is) a lot of things. Neutrinos, ejected planets and cold stellar remnants and naked black holes are all "dark matter".

    The proponents of the electric universe "theory" seem to be making only half-educated pseudoscientific assertions, and every "explanation" they offer produces a dozen holes that they are too ignorant to see. For example "plasma redshift". That's great, certain kinds of *hot* plasma might produce some kind of red shift effect, so what, are they saying that the entire interstellar medium is made up of hot plasma? Are you f*$#ing serious with this s&$t? The obvious (stupidly obvious) hole here being that we don't observe *any* "hot interstellar plasma" (which is quite easy to detect by the way).

    -- https://archive.is/3pLPJ#selection-1417.52-1443.599

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    The argument that the Sun doesn't experience nuclear fusion had to provide a reason for the production of Judy the right number of solar neutrinos, which are a quantum particle produced in the Weak Force interactions that are associated with fusion events. Neutrinos ate observational evidence of solar fusion, and more proof that EU is a great big pile of the steaming stuff.
    We wunt be druv.

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  12. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    The solar wind is caused by an electric field?
    I don't think this is an accurate way of stating what the EU says. The solar wind is caused by the Sun (i.e. processes happening in and around the sun). It is the acceleration of the solar wind that is caused by an electromagnetic field.

    In physics an electric field applied to charged particles cause them to accelerate.
    Exactly, but to the modern standard model cosmologist the accelerated solar wind is a big mystery.

    The Electric universe theory says that the solar wind is the result of such a field, and the Sun is electric, not fusion based.
    It does not deny that fusion is taking place inside the sun, nor does it deny that the solar wind is the result of what are probably numerous different processes, including nuclear fusion. What it denies is that gravity is the primary cause of what is happening inside the sun. The EU does not deny the existence of gravity nor that it is responsible for causing things the happen in the cosmos. It merely adds the electromagnetic force, which is all but infinitely more powerful than gravity over long distances, back into the cosmological equation.

    Maxwell’s theory of acceleration, however, talks about a time variable field, not a fixed one, and what’s more the solar wind contains both positive and negatively charged ions (protons and electrons mainly). An electric sun would be positively charged and all the negatively charged electrons would be attached to it – not be pushed out from the Sun on a solar wind. This fact proves the Sun is not electric.

    -- https://archive.is/3pLPJ
    Now that is an interesting argument that I have not yet heard. I'll read that whole article as soon as time allows and I'll see if I can find a response from the EU folks.

    This is just the sort of thing I was hoping would be posted here. Care to do some digging to find some things that directly address the topics addressed in the actual "Top Ten Reasons" videos? If so, I'd love to read what ever you find.

    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    User Name,

    After reading that critique you linked to, I have to say that I'm rather disappointed in it. It was way too generalized and made assumptions based on those generalizations that just do not accurately portray what the EU is. In short, the author set up five straw men and, after knocking them down, declared the EU debunked. In fact, the article is so over generalized, it really makes me wonder just how much actual research the author did before writing his debunking article.

    Not that I think the guy is lying. I just think that people tend to assume too much. People, especially professional scientists, hear "alternative cosmology" and instantly assume that whatever it is must be on par with ancient alien theory or something similar. They instantly leap to the crack-pot/lunatic presumption and automatically read that into whatever they see. Of course, no one can blame them for that too much because there is no doubt that the vast majority of alternative cosmologies are indeed nothing more than some wacko trying to gain his fifteen minutes of fame. In addition to that, the EU folks do, in my opinion, allow far too many people who aren't scientists and who's material is not scientific to be associated too closely with the EU model. I, for example, don't buy hardly a single word of what David Talbot proposes.

    At any rate, there are some descent responses to that specific critique HERE.

    Clete
    Last edited by Clete; November 15th, 2017 at 09:45 PM.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    In Number 4 of our ongoing series, "The Top Ten Reasons the Universe is Electric," we explore an ongoing astrophysical enigma -- the Fermi Bubbles, giant gamma ray structures which scientists have dubbed "incandescent bulbs screwed into the center of the galaxy." In this episode, we explore why such a feature is both explicable and predictable in the Electric Universe.
    The Fermi Bubbles are two huge structures “burped out” by the Milky Way’s supermassive black hole and visible in X-ray and gamma-ray light. -- http://astronomy.com/news/2017/03/fermi-bubbles

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    The Fermi Bubbles are two huge structures “burped out” by the Milky Way’s supermassive black hole and visible in X-ray and gamma-ray light. -- http://astronomy.com/news/2017/03/fermi-bubbles
    What is it about that article that is one whit more plausible than any explanation given by the EU? Are we just supposed to take it as coincidence that the two lobes are symmetrical and forget that an event caused by a singularity would have no way of creating two partially overlapped spheres? I mean if this were caused by a single event then why would the aftermath be so uniformly symmetrical at all and under what imaginable circumstance could it have caused two distinct lobes to form rather than a single lobe centered around the event?

    Further, 6 - 9 million years ago? That's a very large margin of error. I mean, 9 million years is a full 50% longer period of time than 6 million years. I get that it more than a mere guess but common already.

    Lastly, it is most important that the article presents an interpretation of observed data. The data consists of negatively red-shifted (blue-shifted) high velocity absorption spectra. In other words, they use the light absorbed by the gasses in the bubble to determine how fast they are moving. That's it. That's all the data actually tells them. Every syllable of anything about a black-hole is interpretation based on what the scientist think they already know. The data does not, so far as I am aware, contradict anything that the EU theory states about the nature of these Fermi Bubbles. They would simply have a different interpretation of the data.

    Clete

    P.S. Keep in mind that I'm really truly am not an EU proponent. I'm mainly playing devil's advocate here and responding in the manner that I would intuitively expect an actual EU devotee to respond.
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    User Name,

    After reading that critique you linked to, I have to say that I'm rather disappointed in it. It was way too generalized and made assumptions based on those generalizations that just do not accurately portray what the EU is. In short, the author set up five straw men and, after knocking them down, declared the EU debunked.
    What really puts the nail in the EU coffin for me is the comment found here: https://archive.is/3pLPJ#selection-1417.52-1443.599

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    What really puts the nail in the EU coffin for me is the comment found here: https://archive.is/3pLPJ#selection-1417.52-1443.599
    The fact that it even raises a nail to put in the coffin is an excellent example of the sort of confirmation bias that I'm talking about in regards to people rejecting alternative cosmologies without even understanding what they actually propose. The comment you highlight sounds very reasonable and would be an excellent point except that the EU does NOT deny that plasma is neutral in an overall sense, it does not present plasma as something other than what the experimental and observational evidence supports, which is very clear and quite well known and understood. As a result, the comment doesn't even touch the EU much less hammer nails in it's coffin.

    The very next comment after the one you highlighted puts it perfectly...

    "A common misconception. Cosmic plasma is not electrically neutral, it is quasi-neutral, which means that it tends towards neutrality. This is why the solar wind is not held by the Sun's gravitation field, and accelerates towards the heliopause, and why it forms the heliospheric current sheet, carrying a billion amps.

    Even the immense gravitational field of a black hole can not hold its surrounding plasma, and forms astrophysical jets (which are actually non-neutral, ie. they are charged particle beams), that can extend 5000 light-years (M87's jet).

    Yes, space plasmas are neutral overall, but quasi-neutraliity means that charge imbalances occur, over light-years, as demonstrated by jets."

    Clete
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

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    Over 3000 post club gcthomas's Avatar
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    Still waiting for a quantitative theory. Without it all you get is hand wavy qualitative, descriptive explanations that are no more useful than Hydroplate theory or Bach Flower remedies.

    Without numbers there is nothing to use to price that the theory predicts anything at all, asks it certainly doesn't disprove actual physics, which has a fantastically precise, quantitative sweet of theories and experimental results.
    We wunt be druv.

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    Over 1500 post club User Name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clete View Post
    The fact that it even raises a nail to put in the coffin is an excellent example of the sort of confirmation bias that I'm talking about in regards to people rejecting alternative cosmologies without even understanding what they actually propose.
    Seems that is what you are doing with mainstream science.

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