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Thread: What is the Gospel?

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    Damnit! On thread record as saying Jesus only died for “Believers”...

    That is LA...

    https://carm.org/did-jesus-die-every...friends-say-no

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Have you honestly considered that you misread her and jumped to a false conclusion which, perhaps in your affinity for Sonnet, you wanted to reach?
    Lon profess s Calvinism... so He’s not a snake in the grass...

    But the entire thread is GD denying that Jesus died for all.

    She spelled out in black and white that God onlyndoed for “Believers”... which... if taken out of a reformed view of time and God...

    Which GD agrees with... she does not believe in limiting of foreknowledge... so... in turn... she has now predestined people to hell in her teaching... and others are accepting her heresy that aren’t Calvinists!!!

    When I get angry... it’s with good cause!

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    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dressed.In.Red View Post
    Saying Jesus didn’t die for All is the ultimate expression of LA...
    True!

    GD is in thread record here as saying exactly that Jesus only died for believers

    IE... GD is teaching LA.
    You have not thought this through.

    Christ did die for believers and did so when they were unbelievers.

    "While WE were yet sinners [lost], Christ died for US."
    As near as I can tell, that's what Glory said - Christ died for believers when they were in unbelief. And that's what Paul said.

    So, was Paul teaching L.A.?
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Tambora (November 14th, 2017)

  5. #2509
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    I cannot put this to rest, but I can explain it a little.

    God, now and at the end of time, has the Lamb's book of life. All names 'then' (bema seat) if not now, are written in the Lamb's book of Life. An Arminian says that book is written 'after' and not finished being written yet, such that logically (whether he/she realizes it or not), God has no Foreknowledge/Limited.

    The Calvinist, however, believes God's Foreknowledge is what is 'Unlimited' and therefore Atonement is necessarily 'Limited' in this: That God knows and knew, exactly who He died for as if it all were a done deal.

    It is always Exhaustive Foreknowledge that is the difference between camps. If one has a head for thinking about difficult subjects, he/she will more readily understand the Calvinist position AND will not be too hung up on it, understanding that man is finite in this scenario (both actually).

    A Calvinist then, isn't teaching against the gospel, if you understand this, he/she is rather understanding God as Omniscient and Sovereign. Such logically points to a direction that God necessarily knew the full scope of the death on the cross AND purposed to save those specifically that would be saved (again, if it is true He knows exactly who was, is, and ever will be written in the Lamb's book of life.
    No Calvinist 'should' ever say God is 'willing that any should perish.'

    Rather, they better stick to the scripture that says this exactly as an Arminian or Open Theist (among others): 2 Peter 3:9 Rather, what a Calvinist is trying to make certain, is that God is never at the mercy of any man for His purposes. We realize this is not the case, that love makes God subservient to man, in an Open present and future. Such, however, questions the very divine incommunicable attributes of God and, ALSO has God's ways specifically 'not' higher than man's at such point. Isaiah 55:8,9

    Revelation 20:15, by example and 'proof' says that the Lamb's book is 'already' complete, by example.
    As I said, does not put this to rest, but I do hope it helps someone have an 'ah ha' moment for being able to see
    the other's side, maybe walk a mile... In Him -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    glorydaz (November 14th, 2017)

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    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Lon,

    If L.A. were true, then 2 Peter 3:9 cannot be taken as literally true, because it wouldn't be.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Tambora (November 14th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    True!



    You have not thought this through.

    Christ did die for believers and did so when they were unbelievers.



    As near as I can tell, that's what Glory said - Christ died for believers when they were in unbelief. And that's what Paul said.

    So, was Paul teaching L.A.?
    Musty...

    Ask Glorydaz if Jesus Died for every man that is, was and will be.

    Ask her if He excluded Unbelievers...

    If she adjusts her response to admit that Jesus died for ALL... she is then recanting what she has written earlier.

    If she apologizes for saying... Jesus didn’t die for all... earlier... all is restored.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Okay... so... you’re a hot head lately. Sonnet prefaced this thread with his lack of faith... so... you’re only saying this for debates sake...

    There comes a time when a person’s search is more important than our debate achievements! Are you attacking Sonnet into the fold?

    What good is it to keep on the defensive, when Jesus sought faith from all humanity unto death?
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    No... he’s expressing his doubt...



    No... Sonnet is sharing his heart with us and you are mockinv his heart.



    You couldn’t have crafted this last sentence better, as it is 100% Correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Who made you Sonnet's guardian?

    Stay out of my business, you deceiver. I have no use for anything you have to say after you've shown your backside so rudely. It was an ugly sight to behold, and I don't appreciate your pushing into my face again.

    I'm telling Sonnet what he needs to hear... instead of your namby pamby, hand Sonnet a bib, and spoon feed him, crapola.


    His "search for faith" is no more genuine, at this point, than your proclaimed faith.

    This is why Evil has decided to lie about me. I hurt his Pride. Look back. It's all there.

    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    So just to wrap it up even tighter...you do not believe in L.A. -- that there are those for whom there is ZERO hope of being saved because God limited the shed blood of Christ only for some but not for others? You do not believe that?
    All men have access to the blood through faith. I've said it every way that I know how, and I shouldn't have to keep saying it because some idiot with hurt feelings decides he's going to have a hissy fit.


    Every single human being has the hope of salvation. How long have I been posting here, Musty?

    The fact is, not every man is saved. Justification by faith in the blood is Paul's Gospel, and those who reject it will face the wrath of God.

    As it is, Evil has proven he is a big talker and that's it. He'd best examine himself, because I see a lost man who wants to be more than he is.

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    Tambora (November 14th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Lon,

    If L.A. were true, then 2 Peter 3:9 cannot be taken as literally true, because it wouldn't be.
    2 Peter 3:9King James Version (KJV)

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    Amen!!! Though all Unbelievers do not come to “repentance” and believe, thus... damning them... by their choice... Jesus died for them too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dressed.In.Red View Post
    Musty...

    Ask Glorydaz if Jesus Died for every man that is, was and will be.

    Ask her if He excluded Unbelievers...

    If she adjusts her response to admit that Jesus died for ALL... she is then recanting what she has written earlier.

    If she apologizes for saying... Jesus didn’t die for all... earlier... all is restored.
    I already asked that. But look, she doesn't owe me an answer any more than she does you.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Tambora (November 14th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post






    This is why Evil has decided to lie about me. I hurt his Pride. Look back. It's all there.



    All men have access to the blood through faith. I've said it every way that I know how, and I shouldn't have to keep saying it because some idiot with hurt feelings decides he's going to have a hissy fit.


    Every single human being has the hope of salvation. How long have I been posting here, Musty?

    The fact is, not every man is saved. Justification by faith in the blood is Paul's Gospel, and those who reject it will face the wrath of God.

    As it is, Evil has proven he is a big talker and that's it. He'd best examine himself, because I see a lost man who wants to be more than he is.
    I will not abide in your LIES and deception!

    Shut your mouth!

    Youndenied Jesus died for all and are in record... @Sonnet... we both quoted her, so she cannot edit it out.

    If you find it... it should be after page 50...

    I’ll look...

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    @Sonnet

    Don’t feel guilty if you can find her quote. She even has Tambora In in this. I know you are of sensitive Spirit and you get upset if you hurt Christians... but to not dig up GD’s words that she is denying in this matter would actually be hurting her... and others...

    The matter can die and GD’s words can stand as they are... but... duplicitous deception is never acceptable in matters of the Gospel... and good news... GD does as she desires others to do for her... and I’m certain she’ll be deeply appreciative of her quotes words that will be brought to light.
    I’ll

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Every single human being has the hope of salvation. How long have I been posting here, Musty?

    You have been here longer than me and I knew that's what you believed. But now that it's unmistakably out in one little sentence, this stuff about you being a Calvinist should be over.

    Right, E?
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Lon,

    If L.A. were true, then 2 Peter 3:9 cannot be taken as literally true, because it wouldn't be.
    From a Calvinist perspective, it means that God 'will be, is, was' patient 'for' the salvation of all. IOW, there is always one more point a Calvinist reads scripture than most of our counterparts: "What time[s] does this apply to?" We believe, for God, it is necessary that it is all of them. Such is a very difficult gymnastic. I think that's why some Calvinists are hyper, they may be unable to wrestle with an 'infinite timeline' perspective.

    Again, I know this doesn't put the topic to rest. My hope is more to 'help' another grasp where each is coming from. God thinks and acts well beyond me too, so I'm in the same human frailty and finite boat. Every once in awhile, I catch a glimpse of His bigger picture. Like Moses, if even, I catch a glimpse of His glory. I've not generally been too worked up over who is a Calvinist or not, nor who agrees or disagrees. Rather, I simply try to help people think of some of these biblical truths with me, and me them (you). In Him -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Down there with them spiders musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dressed.In.Red View Post
    I will not abide in your LIES and deception!

    Shut your mouth!

    Youndenied Jesus died for all and are in record... @Sonnet... we both quoted her, so she cannot edit it out.

    If you find it... it should be after page 50...

    I’ll look...
    Knock yourself out but I've known her and read her stuff longer than you've been here and she has never ever taught anything like LA. Not to brag but if anybody would notice it, it would be me, who has been posting against LA before you or Sonnet ever got here (ask Lon).
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    You have been here longer than me and I knew that's what you believed. But now that it's unmistakably out in one little sentence, this stuff about you being a Calvinist should be over.

    Right, E?
    I’ll tell you what...

    It’s “almost good enough.

    Could you please ask Glory “if Jesus died for ALL that were, are and will be?”?

    If she answers yes or no... without obfuscation... I will apologize to her.

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