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Thread: The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

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    The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

    Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
    to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

    Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

    The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
    i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
    The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
    but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
    John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
    Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

    John 14 (NLT, 2007)
    15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
    16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
    17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
    because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
    20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
    21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
    And because they love me, my Father will love them.
    And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
    23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
    and we will come and make our home with each of them.
    24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

    Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
    3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
    4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
    that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
    5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
    That is how we know we are living in him.

    John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
    John 15 (NLT, 2007)
    1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
    2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
    4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
    is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
    5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
    Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
    6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
    Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
    8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
    9 Remain in my love.
    10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
    just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

    Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
    Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.
    And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).
    So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!

    “To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
    In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
    is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
    And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s
    Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
    If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
    … There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
    eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
    remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian
    lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
    and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …
    In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
    If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without
    also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the
    same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,
    we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ,
    we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”
    … Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …
    if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).

    “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
    who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
    For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from
    the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)

    Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …
    because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!
    “But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains
    in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent
    of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”
    … Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    “(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.
    … So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,
    letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

    “We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;
    we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”
    … Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

    “For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally). But if through
    the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally). For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)
    Last edited by ZacharyB; September 14th, 2017 at 06:17 AM.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Only one quote from Paul?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Only one quote from Paul?
    And even then he uses it wrongly.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Only one quote from Paul?
    Very well - here; just for you...

    "And the first one said to the second one there, 'I hope you're having fun.' Band on the run, band on the run." - Paul McCartney.

    There - ya happy now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers
    to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

    Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

    The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),
    i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).
    The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …
    but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:
    John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.
    Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

    John 14 (NLT, 2007)
    15 If you love me, obey my commandments.
    16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.
    17 He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,
    because he lives with you now and later will be in you.
    20 … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
    21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.
    And because they love me, my Father will love them.
    And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.
    23 All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,
    and we will come and make our home with each of them.
    24 Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

    Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)
    3 And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.
    4 If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,
    that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.
    5 But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.
    That is how we know we are living in him.

    John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

    I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …
    John 15 (NLT, 2007)
    1 I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.
    2 He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …
    4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it
    is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.
    5 Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.
    Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.
    6 Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.
    Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.
    8 When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.
    9 Remain in my love.
    10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,
    just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

    Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.
    Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).
    This is what being “in Christ” is all about.
    And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).
    So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!

    [COLOR="#0000FF"]“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.
    In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch
    is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.
    And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s
    Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.
    If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).
    … There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that
    eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin
    remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian
    lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;
    and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …
    In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.
    If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without
    also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the
    same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,
    we must obey him (see John 14:15). As long as we continue to obey Christ,
    we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”
    … Dr. Thomas Hale, medical mi

    Hi and let it begin , so when is the B O C compared with BRANCES and a VINE , with a verse !!

    What commandments is John 15:15 talking about that we are to keep ??

    Why doe verse 16 say He SHALL GIVE a verb in the FUTURE TENSE ?

    When we ARE / ESTE a verb in the PRESENT TENSE , and are " in Christ " we are always in Christ as the PRESENT TENSE means a CONTINUOUS action that we are always in Christ OR OSAS !!

    Your other proof texts are out of CONTEXT !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and let it begin , so when is the B O C compared with BRANCES and a VINE , with a verse !!

    What commandments is John 15:15 talking about that we are to keep ??

    Why doe verse 16 say He SHALL GIVE a verb in the FUTURE TENSE ?

    When we ARE / ESTE a verb in the PRESENT TENSE , and are " in Christ " we are always in Christ as the PRESENT TENSE means a CONTINUOUS action that we are always in Christ OR OSAS !!

    Your other proof texts are out of CONTEXT !!

    dan p
    The believer doesn't follow Christ for his own sake alone.

    Stop bashing

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    The believer doesn't follow Christ for his own sake alone.

    Stop bashing

    Hi and you did not DEBUNK what I wrote , do you have a problem ?

    And IGNORANCE can be educated !

    CRAZINESS can be MEDICATED !!

    And their is no CURE FOR STUPID so do not go there !!

    Your CONTEXT is out of balance !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and you did not DEBUNK what I wrote , do you have a problem ?

    And IGNORANCE can be educated !

    CRAZINESS can be MEDICATED !!

    And their is no CURE FOR STUPID so do not go there !!

    Your CONTEXT is out of balance !!

    dan p
    So now I'm stupid because you are bashing people you don't agree with?

    You're right; stupid can't be fixed.

    What would you like me to debunk?

    Jesus the Christ commanded two things. Those who love GOD, believe in the teachings and example of the Christ, and follow them to the best of their ability in faithfulness.
    Last edited by popsthebuilder; September 13th, 2017 at 08:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and let it begin , so when is the B O C compared with BRANCES and a VINE , with a verse !!

    What commandments is John 15:15 talking about that we are to keep ??

    Why doe verse 16 say He SHALL GIVE a verb in the FUTURE TENSE ?

    When we ARE / ESTE a verb in the PRESENT TENSE , and are " in Christ " we are always in Christ as the PRESENT TENSE means a CONTINUOUS action that we are always in Christ OR OSAS !!

    Your other proof texts are out of CONTEXT !!

    dan p
    Are you really not aware of the verses that liken the body of Christ to the different branches of the vine?

    I can find them if you need me to.

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    This morning early I was able to fix the OP to its' original condition.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Romans 10 KJV
    (3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


    Only GOD's righteousness and obedience saves, not yours.


    Romans 5 KJV
    (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
    even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    God Bless America

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    Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    So now I'm stupid because you are bashing people you don't agree with?

    You're right; stupid can't be fixed.

    What would you like me to debunk?

    Jesus the Christ commanded two things. Those who love GOD, believe in the teachings and example of the Christ, and follow them to the best of their ability in faithfulness.


    Hi and where is the B O C to keep commandments , for one !!

    Another is where is the B O C is the same as VINE and BRANCHES ??


    DAN P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Romans 5 KJV
    (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    Only GOD's righteousness and obedience saves, not yours.
    The U/L is so obvious that it need not even be quoted.
    Da qvestion is: will you be one of dem?

    Sure looks like I need to post that PRACTICING RIGHTEOUSNESS thread again!
    Not too impressive ... only about 15 NT verses teach the necessity of da red!
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi and where is the B O C to keep commandments , for one !!

    Another is where is the B O C is the same as VINE and BRANCHES ??


    DAN P
    The congregation of believers is the body of Christ. The commands and law of the Spirit is within the hearts and minds of the body of Christ.

    Your second statement or question cannot be answered or responded to accurately because I can't be sure of what it was you were attempting to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Romans 10 KJV
    (3) For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


    Only GOD's righteousness and obedience saves, not yours.


    Romans 5 KJV
    (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
    even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
    (19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
    so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
    Unto justification

    Made righteous.

    The free gift is effectual when accepted.

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