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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Break down how nullifying DACA violates this Text.
    Not interested in imperious commands today. Sorry to disappoint.

    Although I do wonder how you think Catholics survived all those hundreds and hundreds of years without the CCC, being that it only dates to 1992 and you would put it before the authority of the popes, which is a big nono.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Not interested in imperious commands today. Sorry to disappoint.
    I'm sorry also.

    Your passive aggression ranks among the highest I've ever seen online, 'the Devil his due and all.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Although I do wonder
    No you don't, this is passive aggression, case in point; you can see how subtle you are here; thank you for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    how you think Catholics survived all those hundreds and hundreds of years without the CCC, being that it only dates to 1992
    I thought it was 1994 at earliest, so it's even older than I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    and you would put it before the authority of the popes, which is a big nono.
    You need to learn your own religion better then. The CCC is what all (266) the popes teach. It's a giant mountain built of infallible papal teachings on matters of faith (the major) and morals (the minor). No pope would ever contradict anything in it, without singlehandedly simultaneously nullifying Catholicism itself all together.

    Sometimes leftist Catholics and Catholic leftists act like that'd be just fine with them, so long as it promotes their own private personal moral dogmas, which are all made up, right out of thin air.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    At least you're now making it an economic argument instead of a dumb moral one.

    A Catholic Framework for Economic Life
    A Statement of the U.S. Catholic BishopsNovember 1996

    As followers of Jesus Christ and participants in a powerful economy, Catholics in the United States are called to work forgreater economic justice in the face of persistent poverty, growing income-gaps, and increasing discussion of economicissues in the United States and around the world. We urge Catholics to use the following ethical framework for economiclife as principles for re ection, criteria for judgment and directions for action. These principles are drawn directly fromCatholic teaching on economic life.

    1. The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy.
    2. All economic life should be shaped by moral principles. Economic choices and institutions must be judged by howthey protect or undermine the life and dignity of the human person, support the family and serve the common good.
    3. A fundamental moral measure of any economy is how the poor and vulnerable are faring.
    4. All people have a right to life and to secure the basic necessities of life (e.g., food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, safe environment, economic security.)
    5. All people have the right to economic initiative, to productive work, to just wages and bene ts, to decent working conditions as well as to organize and join unions or other associations.
    6. All people, to the extent they are able, have a corresponding duty to work, a responsibility to provide the needs of their families and an obligation to contribute to the broader society.
    7. In economic life, free markets have both clear advantages and limits; government has essential responsibilities and limitations; voluntary groups have irreplaceable roles, but cannot substitute for the proper working of the market andthe just policies of the state.
    8. Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life.
    9. Workers, owners, managers, stockholders and consumers are moral agents in economic life. By our choices, initiative,creativity and investment, we enhance or diminish economic opportunity, community life and social justice.
    10. The global economy has moral dimensions and human consequences. Decisions on investment, trade, aid anddevelopment should protect human life and promote human rights, especially for those most in need wherever theymight live on this globe.

    According to Pope John Paul II, the Catholic tradition calls for a “society of work, enterprise and participation” which“is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the state to assure that the basic needs of the whole society are satisfied.” (Centesimus Annus, 35). All of economic life should recognize the fact that we all are God’s children and members of one human family, called to exercise a clear priority for “the least among us.”
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    I'm sorry also.

    Your passive aggression ranks among the highest I've ever seen online, 'the Devil his due and all.
    You must not get around much.

    You need to learn your own religion better then. The CCC is what all (266) the popes teach. It's a giant mountain built of infallible papal teachings on matters of faith (the major) and morals (the minor). No pope would ever contradict anything in it, without singlehandedly simultaneously nullifying Catholicism itself all together.

    Sometimes leftist Catholics and Catholic leftists act like that'd be just fine with them, so long as it promotes their own private personal moral dogmas, which are all made up, right out of thin air.
    If you're interested, I recommend Pope Leo XIII's letter on Americanism.

    The three pillars of Church authority are Tradition, the Scriptures, and the Magisterium. So your dismissal of any papal teaching, or that of the ordinary magisterium of the bishops and cardinals - and of Scripture in your post to Barbarian effectively kicks away two of the three pillars. That's not how Catholicism works.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post

    A Catholic Framework for Economic Life
    A Statement of the U.S. Catholic BishopsNovember 1996

    As followers of Jesus Christ and participants in a powerful economy, Catholics in the United States are called to work forgreater economic justice in the face of persistent poverty, growing income-gaps, and increasing discussion of economicissues in the United States and around the world. We urge Catholics to use the following ethical framework for economiclife as principles for re ection, criteria for judgment and directions for action. These principles are drawn directly fromCatholic teaching on economic life.

    1. The economy exists for the person, not the person for the economy.
    2. All economic life should be shaped by moral principles. Economic choices and institutions must be judged by howthey protect or undermine the life and dignity of the human person, support the family and serve the common good.
    3. A fundamental moral measure of any economy is how the poor and vulnerable are faring.
    4. All people have a right to life and to secure the basic necessities of life (e.g., food, clothing, shelter, education, healthcare, safe environment, economic security.)
    5. All people have the right to economic initiative, to productive work, to just wages and bene ts, to decent working conditions as well as to organize and join unions or other associations.
    6. All people, to the extent they are able, have a corresponding duty to work, a responsibility to provide the needs of their families and an obligation to contribute to the broader society.
    7. In economic life, free markets have both clear advantages and limits; government has essential responsibilities and limitations; voluntary groups have irreplaceable roles, but cannot substitute for the proper working of the market andthe just policies of the state.
    8. Society has a moral obligation, including governmental action where necessary, to assure opportunity, meet basic human needs, and pursue justice in economic life.
    9. Workers, owners, managers, stockholders and consumers are moral agents in economic life. By our choices, initiative,creativity and investment, we enhance or diminish economic opportunity, community life and social justice.
    10. The global economy has moral dimensions and human consequences. Decisions on investment, trade, aid anddevelopment should protect human life and promote human rights, especially for those most in need wherever theymight live on this globe.

    According to Pope John Paul II, the Catholic tradition calls for a “society of work, enterprise and participation” which“is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the state to assure that the basic needs of the whole society are satisfied.” (Centesimus Annus, 35). All of economic life should recognize the fact that we all are God’s children and members of one human family, called to exercise a clear priority for “the least among us.”
    A WALL OF TEXT CUT-N-PASTE FROM SOME WEBSITE.

    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    A WALL OF TEXT CUT-N-PASTE FROM SOME WEBSITE.

    Yeah. From the USCCB. Your magisterial authority.

    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    You must not get around much.
    Almost magically passive aggressive in passivity and in aggression both; not only that, but gracious and too humble to admit it!

    There's no smilie for that Anna. :PLAIN: doesn't work against that.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    If you're interested, I recommend Pope Leo XIII's letter on Americanism.
    I am interested. I'll check it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    The three pillars of Church authority are Tradition, the Scriptures, and the Magisterium. So your dismissal of any papal teaching, or that of the ordinary magisterium of the bishops and cardinals - and of Scripture in your post to Barbarian effectively kicks away two of the three pillars. That's not how Catholicism works.
    You'll forgive me while I stick my fingers in my ears and say nah-nah-na-nah over-and-over again. I'm going to put my money on that the Catholic Church herself, through her official teaching organ the papacy, who has promulgated and published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a more trustworthy teacher of just what the Catholic faith is, than some anonymous user account "annabenedetti" from the internet.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Yeah. From the USCCB. Your magisterial authority.

    Who can't contradict a single thing the papacy teaches ex cathedra and you know it. If they do, even if all of them do, they'll be excommunicated. You left out that part.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Almost magically passive aggressive in passivity and in aggression both; not only that, but gracious and too humble to admit it!

    There's no smilie for that Anna. :PLAIN: doesn't work against that.
    You're working so hard! I'm impressed.


    I am interested. I'll check it out.
    It's easily found online.

    You'll forgive me while I stick my fingers in my ears and say nah-nah-na-nah over-and-over again. I'm going to put my money on that the Catholic Church herself, through her official teaching organ the papacy, who has promulgated and published the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, is a more trustworthy teacher of just what the Catholic faith is, than some anonymous user account "annabenedetti" from the internet.
    You're going to do what you want, all I can do is accidentally stick my foot out when you run past with your fingers in your ears.

    Of course you don't have to listen to me, but I haven't given you any teaching unique to me. The three pillars I gave you aren't mine - you'll find them in Catholic teaching - if you want to look for them. Google them, if you don't believe me. The bishops are the teaching magisterium of the Church. The Pope is the ultimate magisterial authority, but he's only first among the bishops. Google that too if you'd like.

    The CCC is helpful. But Catholicism didn't start there and it doesn't end there.

    I hope you do read that letter on Americanism, and the history of the heresy of Americanism. It's interesting.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Who can't contradict a single thing the papacy teaches ex cathedra and you know it. If they do, even if all of them do, they'll be excommunicated. You left out that part.
    I don't see anywhere where the Pope corrected the bishops' statement. He certainly has the authority to do so if necessary.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    You're working so hard! I'm impressed.
    Gaslighting! The icing on your passive aggressive cake of censored. At least we know now that we're all at the end of your charade. You can stop now.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    It's easily found online.



    You're going to do what you want, all I can do is accidentally stick my foot out when you run past with your fingers in your ears.

    Of course you don't have to listen to me, but I haven't given you any teaching unique to me. The three pillars I gave you aren't mine - you'll find them in Catholic teaching - if you want to look for them. Google them, if you don't believe me. The bishops are the teaching magisterium of the Church. The Pope is the ultimate magisterial authority, but he's only first among the bishops. Google that too if you'd like.

    The CCC is helpful. But Catholicism didn't start there and it doesn't end there.
    Actually it does end there, since that was the point, when Pope St. John Paul ordered it made. Vatican II needed to be verbally integrated together with the infallible teachings on matters of faith and morals that the Church's magisterium has always taught, and she did that, and she's published it, in many languages, in the Catechism. It's the authoritative verbal expression of the one Catholic faith for the new millennium. And if you believe it, then you know that the one Catholic faith, is the one Christian faith, the same faith that started way back in Matthew 16:16 (KJV), and continued to Mt28:6(KJV)-Mk16:6(KJV)-Lk24:6(KJV), and now to today, in the Catechism, which is available in its entirety online, and can be had in print brand new, for around ten US dollars. It's the teachers edition, explicitly addressed, by Pope St. John Paul, to all the other Catholic bishops in full communion with him.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I hope you do read that letter on Americanism, and the history of the heresy of Americanism. It's interesting.
    I'll check it out. And I'll be reading it in the full light of the Catechism.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I don't see anywhere where the Pope corrected the bishops' statement. He certainly has the authority to do so if necessary.
    I know. It's one of the things I love about the Church, is her unambiguous hierarchical structure. Similar to marriage, but not the same.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

  19. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Gaslighting! The icing on your passive aggressive cake of censored. At least we know now that we're all at the end of your charade. You can stop now.
    Why stop being myself? So many expectations and judgments of me, so little time...

    Actually it does end there, since that was the point, when Pope St. John Paul ordered it made.
    No it doesn't, since a pope can come along 500 years from now and make a new pronouncement which could nullify previous teaching.

    Vatican II needed to be
    There are a lot of traditionalist Catholics who would disagree vehemently with you.

    now to today, in the Catechism, which is available in its entirety online, and can be had in print brand new, for around ten US dollars.
    I've had my copy for many years, and I've read it from cover to cover.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  21. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Why stop being myself? So many expectations and judgments of me, so little time...
    And why shouldn't we be able to say what you yourself are? Why should that be a crime?

    'Not necessarily meaning you, understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    No it doesn't, since a pope can come along 500 years from now and make a new pronouncement which could nullify previous teaching.
    "Nullify?" 'You sure about that word?
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    There are a lot of traditionalist Catholics who would disagree vehemently with you.
    Are those the ones who don't submit to the Church's magisterium, but instead hold their own views higher than the actual magisterium's teachings? Because who cares what they think? And even if you do, you shouldn't heed them.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I've had my copy for many years, and I've read it from cover to cover.
    The Church's teaching on sin, on providence, and on what happens after death are some of my favorites, but the entire museum worth of paintings that it paints with words, is ultimately what's convinced me that the Catholic faith is the ChristianTM faith that we read about in the Bible, and in the encyclopedias and secular history books. HE IS RISEN, and the CCC is what He wants us to know today.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    And why shouldn't we be able to say what you yourself are? Why should that be a crime?
    And where did I tell you you couldn't, or say it was a "crime?" Such a mighty and dramatic straw man you build.

    I've indulged you in your whimsy all the way through, never constraining you.

    "Nullify?" 'You sure about that word?
    You can use one you like better. While it's never happened that a pope has changed an article of faith, I wouldn't be surprised, for example, to see that some hundreds of years down the road we'll see married priests or women priests. That's a hypothetical, but also not outside the realm of possibility, and in the case of women priests it would indeed be a break in Tradition. There's some precedence for married priests, and married Anglican priests have converted into the Catholic priesthood, but it's not the rule.

    Are those the ones who don't submit to the Church's magisterium, but instead hold their own views higher than the actual magisterium's teachings? Because who cares what they think? And even if you do, you shouldn't heed them.
    Some of them don't, some see the pope as an anti-pope, some see VII as the evil work of satan in the church, some don't see the Novus Ordo as legitimate or its Consecration as valid. But just as rebellious are those who hold their own individualistic ideas about Catholicism, rejecting what the teaching magisterium of the Pope and the bishops instruct them in favor of their own personal interpretation of the CCC. It's a similar mindset.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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