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Thread: DACA - Dreamers

  1. #16
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    I want you to reflect on that, Kmoney.

    Paul Ryan is against Trump on this.

    Do you honestly think that Paul Ryan miraculously developed a conscience all of a sudden?

    Do you honestly think that Paul Ryan cares about these people?

    Or don't you think that it's much more likely that he's in favor of DACA because his corporate donors are in favor of it?


    If Paul Ryan is against Trump on this, then I'm in agreement with Trump.

    DEPORT THEM ALL!
    Of course you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    DACA - Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals - it looks like Trump will end it, with a 6 month window for a solution.
    I don't like his decision but it could be worse. Some of it will depend on how exactly Trump handles the next 6 months.
    I hope Congress can come up with a plan.

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    Gold level Subscriber fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    I hope Congress can come up with a plan.
    That's all he wants. A plan. Some progress. Stop turning the blind eye to the problem.
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    That's all he wants. A plan. Some progress. Stop turning the blind eye to the problem.
    What's 'progress'? What type of bill do you think Trump would sign?

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    A Lesson in True Leadership of "the Free World..."

    Obama Speaks Out For Dreamers And Calls Out Trump Lies In Blistering DACA Statement

    By Jason Easley on Tue, Sep 5th, 2017 at 3:14 pm

    President Obama issued a strong statement that called out Trump's real reason for ending DACA while standing up for American values and decency.

    In a statement provided to PoliticusUSA, former President Obama said:

    Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.

    But thatís not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America Ė kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea theyíre undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driverís license.

    Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people Ė our young people Ė that if your parents brought you here as a child, if youíve been here a certain number of years, and if youíre willing to go to college or serve in our military, then youíll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.

    That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.

    But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong Ė because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating Ė because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kidís science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesnít know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?

    Letís be clear: the action taken today isnít required legally. Itís a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldnít threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kidís softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out wonít lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyoneís taxes, or raise anybodyís wages.

    It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, itís up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. Iím heartened by those whoíve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.

    Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way weíd want our own kids to be treated. Itís about who we are as a people Ė and who we want to be.

    What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals Ė that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. Thatís how America has traveled this far. Thatís how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union.

    A former president criticizing a policy of a current president is something that is not seen very often, but President Obama promised that he would speak out against injustice and that is what he is doing. Obama was correct. Trumpís DACA decision wasnít required legally. Trump could have let the lawsuits work their way through the courts. There was no legal reason for the action to be taken now.

    The former President also perfectly summed up why so many Americans are outraged. What Trump did was reject basic decency. He hurt families, children, businesses, and innocent immigrants who donít know any other life but the one that they have in the United States.

    The DACA statement was the most passionate remarks that Obama has made since leaving office. A decent man is fighting for the soul of his country and still driving America toward that more perfect union.
    http://www.politicususa.com/2017/09/05/261010.html

    Or as the Christ put it to the "Religious Right" hypocrisy of His day...

    Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    What's 'progress'? What type of bill do you think Trump would sign?
    What kind would kmoney sign?
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    The dreamer parents knew what they were doing when they smuggled the children in -
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    The dreamer parents knew what they were doing when they smuggled the children in -
    Or
    Maybe the parents were born and raised in a ditch and couldn't read or write and heard about a place called United States where Cartels and Guerrillas didn't rule.
    The issue is sticky because of all the crimes you'd have to commit to stay here long enough to raise your kid here.
    How many laws did the parents break while working under the table or under a false identity?
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    The dreamer parents knew what they were doing when they smuggled the children in -
    Hypocrite - it's time you and yours walk in the Truth you merely pay lip service to being your moral compass...

    Matthew 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

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    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Or
    Maybe the parents were born and raised in a ditch and couldn't read or write and heard about a place called United States where Cartels and Guerrillas didn't rule.
    The issue is sticky because of all the crimes you'd have to commit to stay here long enough to raise your kid here.
    How many laws did the parents break while working under the table or under a false identity?
    True. There are many good people and good families that made it here from terrible places with terrible conditions, but we have to have law in this country. There is the right way to enter the US and a wrong way to enter. Personally, I would do everything possible to become documented, as soon as possible. I wouldn't wait 20 years.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Or
    Maybe the parents were born and raised in a ditch and couldn't read or write and heard about a place called United States where Cartels and Guerrillas didn't rule.
    The issue is sticky because of all the crimes you'd have to commit to stay here long enough to raise your kid here.
    How many laws did the parents break while working under the table or under a false identity?
    Probably many of the same basic immigration laws the many Europeans who have snuck into this country for the past two hundred years have also been breaking.

    The issue though, is that their then small children are guiltless.

    It is a complicated issue, no doubt about it.

  17. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    What kind would kmoney sign?
    Well, for one I'd give permanent status to anyone already here under the DACA program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    Well, for one I'd give permanent status to anyone already here under the DACA program.
    Would you take that off the quota?
    Everyman is a voice in the dark.
    I II III IV

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    Steven Crowder is great, a good Christian conservative


    Last edited by patrick jane; September 5th, 2017 at 08:41 PM.
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    Of course you are.
    I think that Steve Bannon is basically correct about Paul Ryan.

    Steve Bannon is reported as saying of Paul Ryan that he "is a [scathing, emasculating and graphic insult censored] who was born in a petri dish at the Heritage Foundation."

    If Paul Ryan is in favor of anything, however benign and good it may sound, beware. Somehow, it likely benefits his corporate donors and the Republican establishment and is to the disadvantage of average Americans.

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