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Thread: The Order of Salvation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    People are saved and are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel. This is what the Bible teaches.
    No. that's what you falsely teach. You are teaching salvation by works. The Bible teaches grace-based salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The Bible does not teach that humanity is born sinless.
    It's what it teaches; you just refuse to believe what it teaches in this regard.

    Conceived in sin as per David (Ps 51:5) but sanctified before birth as per God Himself (Jer 1:5). And those whom God sanctified He made perfect FOREVER (Heb 10:10, 14).


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Paul brings that out when he wrote, "There is NONE righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.
    Paul simply quoted it from Psalms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    If it were true that we are born sinless Paul would not have said, "There is NONE righteous". He probably would have said, "There are many born righteous, but they will sin". There is nothing in the scriptures like that.
    I have given you the verses long time ago, you just don't believe them. You even refuse to believe our Lord when He said man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him. You keep on insisting that while NOT in Christ, people can do the acts of hearing and believing for them to be in Him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is a strong emphasis in the Bible about being born again. Peter wrote, "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides for ever, 1 Peter 1:23.
    You quote Peter but you don't believe him when he said it's God Who caused us to be born again:

    NAS 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

    You insist that man's new birth is brought about by his acts of "hearing and believing". Salvation by works is what you teach: UNSCRIPTURAL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Conceived in sin as per David (Ps 51:5) but sanctified before birth as per God Himself (Jer 1:5). And those whom God sanctified He made perfect FOREVER (Heb 10:10, 14).
    You are typical of someone that uses scripture WRONGLY to try to make your story true when it is NOT!

    Jeremiah 1:5 is SPECIFICALLY about ONE person... and that is JEREMIAH.

    And the sanctification that it is talking about was his being chosen as "a prophet unto the nations".
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You are typical of someone that uses scripture WRONGLY to try to make your story true when it is NOT!

    Jeremiah 1:5 is SPECIFICALLY about ONE person... and that is JEREMIAH.
    So why take David's statement as applicable to all humans when David was talking about himself as being conceived in sin?

    You are THAT someone who uses scripture WRONGLY to try to make your false story true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    So why take David's statement as applicable to all humans when David was talking about himself as being conceived in sin?
    I was NOT commenting on David''s statement, so that is completely irrelevant to YOUR MISUSE of Jeremiah!

    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You are THAT someone who uses scripture WRONGLY to try to make your false story true!
    You used Jeremiah DECEPTIVELY and OUT OF CONTEXT.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I was NOT commenting on David''s statement, so that is completely irrelevant to YOUR MISUSE of Jeremiah!
    Then you have no Scripture to prove that people are born in sin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You used Jeremiah DECEPTIVELY and OUT OF CONTEXT.
    That's according to you.

    Sanctification is God's work and He did it through Christ. Heb 10:10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Then you have no Scripture to prove that people are born in sin.

    That's according to you.

    Sanctification is God's work and He did it through Christ. Heb 10:10

    You have never been born again by the word of God or you would know better than to teach such heresy.

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides for ever" 1 Peter 1:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You have never been born again by the word of God or you would know better than to teach such heresy.

    "Being born again, not of corruptible seed (Adam) but of incorruptible, by the word of God (the Gospel) which lives and abides for ever" 1 Peter 1:23.
    You are the one teaching heresy, Pate.

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You are the one teaching heresy, Pate.

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3
    Figure this one out heretic.

    On the day of Pentecost, Acts chapter 2. Over 8,000 Jews heard Peters Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of those that were saved had participated in the crucifixion of Jesus, Acts 2:36. It is the preaching of the Gospel that brings people to Christ, simply because the Gospel is "The power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Which all goes to prove that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Figure this one out heretic.

    On the day of Pentecost, Acts chapter 2. Over 8,000 Jews heard Peters Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41 also Acts 4:4. Some of those that were saved had participated in the crucifixion of Jesus, Acts 2:36. It is the preaching of the Gospel that brings people to Christ, simply because the Gospel is "The power of God unto salvation" Romans 1:16. Which all goes to prove that, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
    You keep on teaching heresy, Pate. The verses you paraded do not say what you want them to say.

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

    Do you really want to keep on teaching heresy, Pate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You keep on teaching heresy, Pate. The verses you paraded do not say what you want them to say.

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

    Do you really want to keep on teaching heresy, Pate?

    John 15:5 is about those who are already Christians and are being led by the Holy Spirit. Without the leading of the Spirit we can do nothing.

    You are a typical heretic that believes scripture contradicts scripture. There is nothing wrong with the Bible, but there is plenty wrong with your doctrine.

    You were not able to comment on what happened on the day of Pentecost because you can't. You are all over the Bible trying to prove your doctrine which you can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    John 15:5 is about those who are already Christians and are being led by the Holy Spirit.
    You are adding another heresy to your heretical teachings, Pate. Jesus was addressing His disciples in John 15:5; if His disciples can do NOTHING when NOT in Christ, you are teaching that the non-disciples can do SOMETHING - hear and believe - while NOT in Him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Without the leading of the Spirit we can do nothing.
    Unless PLUGGED IN to the Only Source of Power - Christ - man can do NOTHING, Pate. Stop your heretical teaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are a typical heretic that believes scripture contradicts scripture.
    That description fits you squarely, Pate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    There is nothing wrong with the Bible,
    So why can't you believe it when it recorded Jesus' own statement that man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him; instead you continue on insisting man can do SOMETHING - hear and believe - to be in Him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    but there is plenty wrong with your doctrine.
    Because it does not fit your heretical teaching, Pate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You were not able to comment on what happened on the day of Pentecost because you can't.
    I commented on it but you did not understand, maybe. The verses you paraded relative to the day of Pentecost does not say that people need to first hear and believe before they can be in Christ. Yours is a heretical teaching, Pate.

    If, as you claim, on the day of Pentecost people are not in Christ - the only Source of Power - where did they get the power to do the acts of "hearing and believeing", Pate?

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You are adding another heresy to your heretical teachings, Pate. Jesus was addressing His disciples in John 15:5; if His disciples can do NOTHING when NOT in Christ, you are teaching that the non-disciples can do SOMETHING - hear and believe - while NOT in Him?

    Unless PLUGGED IN to the Only Source of Power - Christ - man can do NOTHING, Pate. Stop your heretical teaching.

    That description fits you squarely, Pate.

    So why can't you believe it when it recorded Jesus' own statement that man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him; instead you continue on insisting man can do SOMETHING - hear and believe - to be in Him?

    Because it does not fit your heretical teaching, Pate?

    I commented on it but you did not understand, maybe. The verses you paraded relative to the day of Pentecost does not say that people need to first hear and believe before they can be in Christ. Yours is a heretical teaching, Pate.

    If, as you claim, on the day of Pentecost people are not in Christ - the only Source of Power - where did they get the power to do the acts of "hearing and believeing", Pate?

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3


    Acts chapter 2 totally and completely refutes what you believe. you don't even have the guts to talk about what happened on the day of Pentecost. I am through with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Acts chapter 2 totally and completely refutes what you believe. you don't even have the guts to talk about what happened on the day of Pentecost.
    Acts 2 doesn't go against what Jesus said. It was written by Luke who recorded the parables of the lost where Jesus explained people don't start out life already lost. Luke 15.

    Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheepfold with its shepherd.
    Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
    Before the son went lost, he was at home with its father.

    So with us. We start out life NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But we all sinned and like sheep went astray (Isa 53:6). Hence we are enjoined to repent. What happened in Acts 2 simply demonstrates the people's response to the call to repentance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    I am through with you.
    That's a better option, rather than continue proclaiming heresy by going against what Christ Himself taught.

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Acts 2 doesn't go against what Jesus said. It was written by Luke who recorded the parables of the lost where Jesus explained people don't start out life already lost. Luke 15.

    Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheepfold with its shepherd.
    Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
    Before the son went lost, he was at home with its father.

    So with us. We start out life NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But we all sinned and like sheep went astray (Isa 53:6). Hence we are enjoined to repent. What happened in Acts 2 simply demonstrates the people's response to the call to repentance.

    That's a better option, rather than continue proclaiming heresy by going against what Christ Himself taught.

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

    You are a sad case. Like most heretics you believe that scripture refutes scripture. You believe that the teachings of Jesus refutes the Pentecostal event. Instead of coming to the Bible to see what it has to say, you come to the Bible with your own phony doctrine and try to make it fit what you believe. There is nothing wrong with the Bible. The Bible clearly teaches that we are justified by faith and by faith alone. The God that you believe in does not exist, but you will have to find that out the hard way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You are a sad case. Like most heretics you believe that scripture refutes scripture. You believe that the teachings of Jesus refutes the Pentecostal event. Instead of coming to the Bible to see what it has to say, you come to the Bible with your own phony doctrine and try to make it fit what you believe. There is nothing wrong with the Bible. The Bible clearly teaches that we are justified by faith and by faith alone. The God that you believe in does not exist, but you will have to find that out the hard way.
    It's you who teach against what Scriptures say.

    While Jesus taught that people don't start life already lost as He explained in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son, you instead teach that people begin life already lost, born in sin.

    Again:

    1. By teaching that man can do SOMETHING - they can hear and believe - while yet apart from Christ, you teach heresy because Christ taught that apart from Him man can do NOTHING. John 15:5

    2. By teaching that unless man first hears and believes he cannot be born again, you teach heresy because Scriptures say it was God Who caused us to be born again through the resurrection of Christ. 1 Pet 1:3

    And,

    3. By teaching that people are born in sin and hence begin life already lost, you teach heresy because Christ Himself explained in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin and lost son, that people don't start life already lost.

    Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheepfold with its shepherd.
    Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
    Before the son went lost, he was at home with its father.

    So with us. We start out life NOT lost, and to be NOT lost is to be in Christ. But we all sinned and like sheep went astray (Isa 53:6). Hence we are enjoined to repent.

    Repent of your heretical teaching, Pate, or perish. Luke 13:3, 5.

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