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Thread: Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

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    Over 2000 post club Eagles Wings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Great word Trichotomy: a three-fold cut, or division in things.

    As in the Apostle Paul's Three-Fold, or Dispensational, understanding of God's dealings with Man.

    Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    Hi Danoh.

    I meant this:

    floc·ci·nau·ci·ni·hil·i·pil·i·fi·ca·tion - noun

    the action or habit of estimating something as worthless
    Psalm 42:1-2 (KJV)

    1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

    2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles Wings View Post
    Hi Danoh.

    I meant this:

    floc·ci·nau·ci·ni·hil·i·pil·i·fi·ca·tion - noun

    the action or habit of estimating something as worthless
    I wasn't sure what word you'd meant, but I thought I'd have some fun with the word I went with

    Romans 5:8 forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    Very interesting thread and post.
    You list scriptures, unlike some who simply feel that on this forum, scripture is an option or even unnecessary to make a point.

    “… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to (eternal)
    destruction … narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
    leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

    ... has limited application to believers in this age of grace, for that statement was given for those who were present when Jesus Christ's ministry was still a work in progress. Ie, he had not fulfilled the law yet.

    Of course, the verses you listed from the epistles does apply to us.
    Let us remember that Jesus' words were spoken to people
    who did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    But, most of His words were definitely spoken to everyone for all time.
    The epistles were written to the churches - to those who had the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    ... the belief in the divinity of Jesus is prerequisite to being a true Christian.
    Anyone truly save knows this!
    I would have to agree with you.
    It's difficult to understand how the Holy Spirit
    (who indwells true believers, and leads them
    into "all truth") can fail to give a revelation to
    every born-again person about this SCRIPTURAL TRUTH.
    Last edited by ZacharyB; September 7th, 2017 at 02:15 PM.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Let us remember that Jesus' words were spoken to people
    who did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    But, most of His words were definitely spoken to everyone for all time.
    The epistles were written to the churches - to those who had the indwelling Holy Spirit.
    While we most certainly can learn much from what Jesus said,

    How about we find out what Jesus Christ in his own words said to whom he was sent?

    Matthew 15:24

    But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    That is plenty clear and plain enough for me.

    How about you?

    I am not one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel, are you?

    I am a son of God born again of God' spirit, aren't you?
    "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

    "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind" Philippians 2:2

    Pro scripture = Protestant

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    You must have come accross a few people like me over the years and you would always have hated them. We know what you are and the spirit that works in you. I'm pleased to have crossed paths with you and I hope I will be the last you get to despise.
    Truster,

    I believe man is Body, Soul and Spirit... but just because AMR is debating you doesn't mean he despises you! Do you have one bone of good humor in your body or one drop of understanding that assists you in "not" taking everything so personal? Coming from me... that's a pretty big warning sign. AMR will get the joke.

    Anyhow... LIGHTEN UP!!!
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    lol - poor Tam; she is now ever so eager to high-five against me she obviously forgot that because there is ever the need to be not conformed unto this world as to one's mind on one thing or another, any saved person can wind up concluding against the divinity of Christ due to some unfortunate logic bought into.

    Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    Then again, evil communications corrupt good manners.

    Nevertheless...

    2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

    Why?

    Romans 5:8.
    I think the main point is actually that the gospel is enormously veiled when people study theology... but Miss WHO the Theos... IS.

    That's what is being asserted.

    Christ's DBR will save many in ways we can't comprehend... but for people to teach and rail against Jesus being the I AM... is just Lame!
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Truster,

    I believe man is Body, Soul and Spirit... but just because AMR is debating you doesn't mean he despises you! Do you have one bone of good humor in your body or one drop of understanding that assists you in "not" taking everything so personal? Coming from me... that's a pretty big warning sign. AMR will get the joke.

    Anyhow... LIGHTEN UP!!!
    Truth is not to be debated but either accepted or rejected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    I would have to agree with you.
    It's difficult to understand how the Holy Spirit
    (who indwells true believers, and leads them
    into "all truth") can fail to give a revelation to
    every born-again person about this SCRIPTURAL TRUTH.
    Very simple - HE is no longer doing that in that way.

    Once The Book was complete, said leading unto all Truth, that those lead unto it BACK THEN write it down, was no more.

    What remained was "What saith the Scripture?"

    That, and sound study methods.

    The senses no longer playing the vital role they had once played.

    This was what God had been heading towards all along - the Core Principle that now remains - the principle of "as it is written."

    Deuteronomy 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites: 17:19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them: 17:20 That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.

    Isaiah 30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:

    Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    Jeremiah 30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book. 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

    Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

    Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

    Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. 2:3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.

    And on, and on, and on, the passages go - that this witness I present here about this issue...is true.

    For as the Apostle Peter put it even as he saw his time approaching his own departure from this world...

    2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance; 1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

    There HAD BEEN their senses. THEY had had THAT.

    But now, as his own days wound down, he writes of what he wants to leave them with that is MORE SURE.

    1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

    Why is it more sure than "well so and so said, heard, felt..." etc.?

    1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    The Apostle Paul's own last words on this issue...

    2 Timothy 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    There it is - a Complete Book "for instruction in righteousness."

    That is to say, for doctrine, or teaching in said righteousness.

    And for reproof of behavior not in line with said teaching.

    And for correction of beliefs and or understandings not in line with said teaching.

    Towards what intent?

    That the man of God might BE perfect.

    That is to say, THROUGHLY furnished unto ALL good works.

    The Spirit had been promised to come and lead those men unto all truth.

    He did just that.

    They wrote it down.

    That we might have it.

    And we do - 66 Books.

    Just a matter now of...

    Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

    That is to say, the three-fold pattern of...

    Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

    Because 1 Cor. 15:1-4, that is to say, Romans 5:8.

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    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    You can't have it both ways - you can't have both "OSAS" and "a prerequisite to being a true Christian."

    Plenty of people find out about the Divinity of Christ even being an issue long after they were OSAS.

    Should they later find out about it and choose against it, it's too late - OSAS.

    In fact, this issue was not even an issue til way after the 1st Century.

    Romans 5:8 remains intact.
    Danoh ... there are multiple forms of the sewing and growing that Jesus spoke of. OSAS refers to those bound to Jesus by faith in His Divity and Finished work. It's also referred to in scripture as... Belief with all of ones "heart"... as in Acts 8:37 ...

    The Laws unto themselves and Subject to the Spirit that don't know... are known in fate by God Alone.
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; September 7th, 2017 at 03:01 PM.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    Truth is not to be debated but either accepted or rejected.
    Truster... Theological "opinion" in discussion is no reason to ignore 1 Corinthians 1:13 and 1 John 4:8!

    Oh... and TRUTH has a name... John 5:39 and John 14:6 ... sincerely... the Island of Truster approach only benefits you. We have to give and receive! Conversation and relation is a two way street.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

  15. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Truster... Theological "opinion" in discussion is no reason to ignore 1 Corinthians 1:13 and 1 John 4:8!

    Oh... and TRUTH has a name... John 5:39 and John 14:6 ... sincerely... the Island of Truster approach only benefits you. We have to give and receive! Conversation and relation is a two way street.
    Read my signature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Danoh ... there are multiple forms of the sewing and growing that Jesus spoke of. OSAS refers to those bound to Jesus by faith in His Divinry and Finished work. It's also referred to in scripture as... Belief with all of ones "heart"... as in Acts 8:37 ...

    The Laws unto themselves and Subject to the Spirit that don't know... are known in fate by God Alone.
    Some thoughts...

    Where is all that in the following?

    Where is it in Romans 3?

    Or in Romans 5, for that matter?

    And Romans 5 is a core chapter when sharing with someone that they are sinners; God's wrath is the best they can expect; but God commended His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Lordship Salvation, which is the issue of His Divinity; is core within Israel's relationship with the LORD.

    Because He WAS and IS THEIR Lord.

    Which is why it's assertion is so prevalent in the OT; in Matt. thru John; in Early Acts; and in Hebrews thru Revelation.

    The Body's doctrine on this is the reverse of that - He is Lord only AFTER He is Saviour.

    The Gentiles were WITHOUT God in the world, Rom. 1; Eph. 2.

    Until He is our Saviour, we have no strength by which to make, that is to say, walk in, Him as Lord, Rom. 6.

    And yes, I believe that His being Divine is tied to His being Lord, and vice-versa.

    1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    That He is Lord to a Body member is a given only after one is a Body member.

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    And Romans 6 is not the issue of Salvation - it is the issue of Sanctification AFTER Salvation.

    The issue of walking in Him as Lord now that He has saved you.

    Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    That first passage there is the OSAS doctrine he has just finished going into in Romans 5.

    He is basically saying "now that you have OSAS, does that mean you should live as you please? No! Because HE is NOW YOUR Lord!

    And he goes into only AFTER Romans 5's Salvation.

    Only then does he go into Lordship.

    Which is the issue of the Lord's Divinity and thus, of His Lordship over the Righteousness the Believer is NOW said to be enabled to live up to under said Lordship.

    Because Romans 5:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
    While we most certainly can learn much from what Jesus said,

    How about we find out what Jesus Christ in his own words said to whom he was sent?

    Matthew 15:24

    But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


    That is plenty clear and plain enough for me.

    How about you?

    I am not one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel, are you?

    I am a son of God born again of God' spirit, aren't you?
    Yeahbutski ... Didn't the Epistle writers refer back all the time to the Gospels?
    Paul was sent to the Gentiles, but quoted Jesus all the time. Etc.
    Try hard to get over it.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    Read my signature.


    Read mine...

    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

    Stupid things Tet says...

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The old heavens and old earth was the law and the Old Covenant.

    The new heavens and new earth is the New Covenant.

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