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Thread: Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Yes, He is faithful and just to honor His promise in 1 John 1:9,
    which is to cleanse us from our sins, if we confess (repent of) them.
    P.S. This is not about performing "works" (good works/deeds).
    This is just about performing "our reasonable service" (Romans 8:1 or 12:1?).
    In light of "Romans 4"... could you explain "our reasonable sevice"... ?

    You used a verse in your OP that I believe binds to go and "sin"... "unbelieve"... no more.

    Im still wondering where you are coming from.

    In other words... is anything required of our flesh... to be saved? In your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    In several verses in John 14, Jesus repeats:
    "If you love Me, you will keep (obey) My commandments."

    Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?
    And therefore, does anyone get into heaven who does not keep His commandments?
    Oh... IC!!! And Jesus goes on to explain Himself...

    John 13:34 a new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

    Please explain what Commandments you believe Jesus is referring to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Excellent! And its true, that's one of the best posts I've seen since I've been on TOL! And I definitely take those verses to myself they are the truth.

    To truly love God is to be willing to lay down our lives for others and become a living sacrifice and turn from this world of sin to live by the will of God and worship him in Spirit and in truth. And those who endure to the end, and suffer whatsoever is set before them and keep living by God's will and keep their faith, are those who shall be eternally saved. As Jesus said we are to endure to the end to be saved, so once saved always saved is a false teaching.

    We are sealed by that Holy Spirit as long as we live by the will of God and abide in his goodness. God won't keep us if we lust after the flesh and turn again to the world one we've known the truth. (Romans 1) We do this and we crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame.


    Nope

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Yes, this is how it is supposed to work.
    But, as evidenced in most N. A. churches ...
    many born-agains choose to follow their flesh instead of the Spirit's still small voice.
    This problem is the reason for the many dozens of warnings to the churches (in the epistles).
    And some of these warning actually threaten losing eternal life!

    Truly, I suggest that you get the revelation of how Paul operates with the churches.
    Jesus taught him over his 17 years in the desert regions (before his ministry began)
    to be extremely tactful as he interspersed his warnings in with ...
    copious amounts of edifications, exhortations, encouragements, promises, etc.
    Who today sees Paul's method of dealing with the churches?
    The Spirit will reveal the authenticity of the warnings to those He chooses.
    (Some believers simply are NOT ready to receive them ... for a variety of reasons.)

    Aren't you down-playing the problem of believers being taught OSAS?
    IMO, it has blinded millions from seeing the truth.

    Also, I feel that you don't realize that ...
    God has always insisted upon co-operation between man and God!
    Today, believers are taught: "Let go, and let God."
    I prefer to say, "Co-operate with the Holy Spirit."
    Do you believe Jesus is YHWH?

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Initially, we are saved ONLY by grace through faith (not by any works).
    But, this must be maintained.
    Yeah, and you worker bees think YOU are able to maintain it, while those of faith are confident in the Lord.

    Philippians 1:6
    Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


    Due to dozens of NT passages ...
    to believe must mean more than mere intellectual or heart belief.
    The world-renowned evangelist T.L.Osborne saw this ... and researched it out.
    He was forced to conclude that the NT "believe" must mean:
    to believe, have faith in, trust, and obey ... until death!
    True believers who are doing this are in the will of God (Matthew 7:21),
    and thus have real assurance.
    He was "forced" by the enemy to "conclude" Christ is not able to keep us and conform us into His image.


    You people say this because you don't have a clue what it means to be created IN CHRIST JESUS as new creatures. Because you don't understand what that means, you preach your false gospel of works...YOUR OWN OBEDIENCE. Your own obedience will not save you OR keep you saved.

    Those who think like you do are always pointing fingers at other people....imagining all the wrongs those other people must be committing, while at the same time, you ignore and deny the lack of love you have in your own hearts. You claim what you have not attained because the love of God has not been shed abroad on your heart. If it had been, you would know what perfect peace is and you wouldn't be accusing the true believers of doing what you are covering up in your own life.


    We don't have to wait for assurance of salvation, we have it, because we believe we are justified by faith. We understand that God works patience in us through various tribulations....as we rest IN HIM through those tribulations. God does the work...we are HIS workmanship.

    Romans 5:1-5
    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    But man, in his infinite PRIDE must ascribe some of the work to himself. He can't resist claiming some of the glory for his salvation for himself. That is not the GOOD NEWS anyone is supposed to be preaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    In light of "Romans 4"... could you explain "our reasonable sevice"... ?
    You used a verse in your OP that I believe binds to go and "sin"... "unbelieve"... no more.
    Im still wondering where you are coming from.
    In other words... is anything required of our flesh... to be saved? In your opinion...
    What Paul tells us our reasonable service is ...
    agrees completely with many dozens of NT verses, re:
    crucifying our flesh, dying to sin, obeying God's will, repenting of sin, etc.
    Not IMO, but the NT keeps repeating the red ...
    ... for those with eyes and ears.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    John 13:34 a new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
    Please explain what Commandments you believe Jesus is referring to.
    Please read through the verses in red in the 4 gospels to see His commandments.
    You already have noticed the new one (John 13:34).
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    ... the NT "believe" must mean:
    to believe, have faith in, trust, and obey ... until death!
    Honest Christians must come to this conclusion ...
    if they RECONCILE all of the NT verses!
    Honest Christians do NOT pick and choose which verses to believe in
    ... they believe ALL of them ... and RECONCILE all of them
    to come to the full realization of the truth.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Honest Christians must come to this conclusion ...
    if they RECONCILE all of the NT verses!
    Honest Christians do NOT pick and choose which verses to believe in
    ... they believe ALL of them ... and RECONCILE all of them
    to come to the full realization of the truth.
    Do... you... believe... Jesus is YHWH?

    Also... do you see how Ephesians 2:8f is challenging your "honesty"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Yeah, and you worker bees think YOU are able to maintain it, while those of faith are confident in the Lord.

    Philippians 1:6
    Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:




    He was "forced" by the enemy to "conclude" Christ is not able to keep us and conform us into His image.


    You people say this because you don't have a clue what it means to be created IN CHRIST JESUS as new creatures. Because you don't understand what that means, you preach your false gospel of works...YOUR OWN OBEDIENCE. Your own obedience will not save you OR keep you saved.

    Those who think like you do are always pointing fingers at other people....imagining all the wrongs those other people must be committing, while at the same time, you ignore and deny the lack of love you have in your own hearts. You claim what you have not attained because the love of God has not been shed abroad on your heart. If it had been, you would know what perfect peace is and you wouldn't be accusing the true believers of doing what you are covering up in your own life.


    We don't have to wait for assurance of salvation, we have it, because we believe we are justified by faith. We understand that God works patience in us through various tribulations....as we rest IN HIM through those tribulations. God does the work...we are HIS workmanship.

    Romans 5:1-5
    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    But man, in his infinite PRIDE must ascribe some of the work to himself. He can't resist claiming some of the glory for his salvation for himself. That is not the GOOD NEWS anyone is supposed to be preaching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    What Paul tells us our reasonable service is ...
    agrees completely with many dozens of NT verses, re:
    crucifying our flesh, dying to sin, obeying God's will, repenting of sin, etc.
    Not IMO, but the NT keeps repeating the red ...
    ... for those with eyes and ears.
    Can you accomplish in your flesh... "through cooperation".. what Jesus accomplishED in His?

    Do you believe Jesus is YHWH?!?


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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye. View Post
    Can you accomplish in your flesh... "through cooperation".. what Jesus accomplishED in His?

    Do you believe Jesus is YHWH?!?

    We can't do what Jesus did as he was sinless, but we can overcome our flesh though Christ Jesus by the power of the Spirit, through faith by the grace of God. Jesus overcame the world and he can help us and strengthen us to do the same.

    Revelation 3

    To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    And no, Jesus isn't God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Do... you... believe... Jesus is YHWH?
    Also... do you see how Ephesians 2:8f is challenging your "honesty"?
    Many OT references to God are referring to the Word
    who will later come to earth to become flesh and
    be called Jesus, the Son of God, the Son of the Highest, etc.
    (Matt 1 and Luke 1).

    Ephesians 2:8 only refers to the time of receiving the Holy Spirit within.
    Salvation must be a process, which ends at death (or when raptured).
    It must be a process because of what many NT verses teach us.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    RE: repenting of a particular sin
    1 • have sorrow over doing it
    2 • confess it before the Lord
    3 • ask the Lord for forgiveness
    4 • stop doing it
    This what the Lord requires of you.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Yes, He is faithful and just to honor His promise in 1 John 1:9,
    which is to cleanse us from our sins, if we confess (repent of) them.
    P.S. This is not about performing "works" (good works/deeds).
    This is just about performing "our reasonable service" (Romans 8:1 or 12:1?).
    Hi and you need to research what CONFESS / HOMOLOGEO means !!

    Then look at REPENT / METANOEO means and they are not the same !!

    dan p

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