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Thread: Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

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    Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

    .
    Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?

    “… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to (eternal)
    destruction … narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
    leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

    The truth of the narrow way has not at all been taught in its full reality.
    There are many NT verses which prove how narrow the way really is!

    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom
    of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven …
    I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (approved of you); depart
    from Me, you who practice lawlessness (sin)!’ ” (Matthew 7:21-23)

    There’s much more to doing God’s will than merely believing in Jesus!
    Yes, sin keeps you out of the kingdom … see the NT “sin lists”
    (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6).

    “You will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures
    to the end (until his death) will be saved (eternally).” (Matthew 10:22)

    There are about 15 NT verses which teach us … the believer must
    endure in the faith until death to receive eternal life (and some are below).

    “But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.”
    (Matthew 19:17)

    “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
    (John 14:21, also John 14:23 & John 15:14)

    Does anyone get into heaven who does NOT love Jesus and obey Him?

    “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter
    into life maimed rather than having two hands and go to hell” (Mark 9:43)

    “For whoever desires to save his (worldly) life will lose it (eternal life)
    but whoever loses his (worldly) life for My sake will save it (eternal life)
    For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is
    himself destroyed or lost (eternal death)?” (Luke 9:24-25 and John 12:25)


    “And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh” (Galatians 5:24)
    “For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternally)” (Romans 8:13)

    “… the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received
    ... by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which
    I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)


    “Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
    and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
    Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

    “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
    and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in
    destruction and perdition (eternal death) … Command those who
    are rich … that they may lay hold on to eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:9-19)


    “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
    that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh
    reap corruption (eternal death)” (Galatians 6:7-8)

    “ ‘My righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure
    in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn
    away from God to their own destruction (eternal death). We are
    the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.” (Hebrews 10:38-39)

    Paul says some believers turn back to their destruction, but in fact,
    he has NO idea who will remain faithful to the end, or who will turn away!

    “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
    whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10)
    “He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

    “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
    and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable,
    murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars
    shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
    which is the second death (eternal death).” (Revelation 21:7-8)

    The “cowardly” include believers who fall from the faith when persecuted
    for their Christian faith, or later submit to taking the mark of the beast.

    “But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything
    that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those
    who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Revelation 21:27)

    “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and
    I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5)


    Jesus gives His definition of who the victorious “overcomer” is …
    “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)

    Just what did Jesus overcome? Primarily: the world, sin, and the devil.
    We today are the deceived church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22).

    “If you refuse to forgive others, your Father won’t forgive your sins.” (Matthew 6:15)
    Unforgiveness blocks you from heaven and also blocks you from being healed!

    “Fear the Lord and keep His commandments … so that you may be saved.
    … So have faith in Him and fear Him and by that fear exercise self-control.
    Keep these commandments. If you do, you will put on the strength of
    righteousness, and cast all wickedness from you, and live to God.”
    (“The Shepherd of Hermas” -- most popular Christian “book” during 100-400 a.d.
    Quoted as Scripture by such as Irenaeas, Clement, Origen, Codex Sinaiticus.
    The Shepherd calls himself: “the Shepherd and messenger of repentance”.)

    “Fear God, who has the power … to throw you into hell” (Luke 12:5)
    “… unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)


    “… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh
    and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God … your sorrow
    (over his first letter to them) led to repentance … For godly sorrow
    produces repentance leading to salvation.” (2 Corinthians 7:1-10)

    Yes, ALL sins will be forgiven through deep and sincere repentance!

    “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

    “When the Lord saw that their repentance was good and pure, and that they
    were able to remain in it, He ordered their former sins to be blotted out.”
    (“The Shepherd of Hermas” – he’s not nearly as tactful as the earlier Epistles)

    Has Satan deceived you? ... Has he deceived your church?

    Satan hates God, and he hates you! … He and his demons work
    tirelessly to succeed in having you spend eternity in hell with them.
    “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
    “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
    “the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)
    “he is a liar and the father of it (lies)” (John 8:44)
    “evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world” (Ephesians 6:12)


    Have you been deceived into believing in “once saved, always saved”,
    and that your sins (past, present, and future) have all been forgiven?
    (Also, have you been deceived into believing in a pre-tribulation rapture?)

    Heads-up! The dozens of warnings in the NT are there for a purpose!

    For example: “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
    whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … now present
    your bodies as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16,19)


    Born-agains have been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit
    to free them from their bondage to Satan – and from their slavery to sin!
    Last edited by ZacharyB; August 30th, 2017 at 06:50 AM.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post

    Born-agains have been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit
    to free them from their bondage to Satan – and from their slavery to sin!
    Praise God
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Of course, you realize what this means, don't you.
    It means that born-agains do NOT have to sin.
    They are NO longer slaves of sin.
    They have been set free indeed.
    They do NOT have to sin.
    They are now free to CHOOSE to NOT sin.
    Ergo, they have NO excuse, if they do sin.
    This is why the new covenant is so far superior to the old one.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Of course, you realize what this means, don't you.
    It means that born-agains do NOT have to sin.
    They are NO longer slaves of sin.
    They have been set free indeed.
    They do NOT have to sin.
    They are now free to CHOOSE to NOT sin.
    Ergo, they have NO excuse, if they do sin.
    This is why the new covenant is so far superior to the old one.
    Woaaaaa.... I say woaaaaaa... hit the breaks Popeye... Romans 7:25 and the lead up isn't in your post... we indeed infract the law... but we are "dead" to it. It... by its 'misuser".... aka accuser ... can't impute against that which is "dead"

    Your hitching up a Works based hayride... that suggests "heights, depths and all the above CAN separate us.

    This is what the majority of brick nd mortar teaches... so... ahem... has Satan been deceiving people that he has power over the "sainted" "sinner"?

    Why did Jesus only come to save "sinners"?

    And lastly... I still fail and God is faithful and just... would you please clarify your stance?

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    I think you point out a lot of excellent passages that many Christians today overlook, purposely, in order to maintain their doctrine.

    So bravo on that.


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

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    Over 4000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    .
    Please tell me why NT passages such as these do NOT apply to you?

    “… wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to (eternal)
    destruction … narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
    leads to (eternal) life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14)

    The truth of the narrow way has not at all been taught in its full reality.
    There are many NT verses which prove how narrow the way really is!

    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom
    of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven …
    I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you (approved of you); depart
    from Me, you who practice lawlessness (sin)!’ ” (Matthew 7:21-23)

    There’s much more to doing God’s will than merely believing in Jesus!
    Yes, sin keeps you out of the kingdom … see the NT “sin lists”
    (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-6).

    “You will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures
    to the end (until his death) will be saved (eternally).” (Matthew 10:22)

    There are about 15 NT verses which teach us … the believer must
    endure in the faith until death to receive eternal life (and some are below).

    “But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, keep the commandments.”
    (Matthew 19:17)

    “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.”
    (John 14:21, also John 14:23 & John 15:14)

    Does anyone get into heaven who does NOT love Jesus and obey Him?

    “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter
    into life maimed rather than having two hands and go to hell” (Mark 9:43)

    “For whoever desires to save his (worldly) life will lose it (eternal life)
    but whoever loses his (worldly) life for My sake will save it (eternal life)
    For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is
    himself destroyed or lost (eternal death)?” (Luke 9:24-25 and John 12:25)


    “And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh” (Galatians 5:24)
    “For if you live according to the flesh you will die (eternally)” (Romans 8:13)

    “… the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received
    ... by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which
    I preached to you – unless you believed in vain.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)


    “Then when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
    and sin, when it is full grown, brings forth (eternal) death.
    Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)

    “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare,
    and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in
    destruction and perdition (eternal death) … Command those who
    are rich … that they may lay hold on to eternal life.” (1 Timothy 6:9-19)


    “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows,
    that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh
    reap corruption (eternal death)” (Galatians 6:7-8)

    “ ‘My righteous ones will live by faith. But I will take no pleasure
    in anyone who turns away.’ But we are not like those who turn
    away from God to their own destruction (eternal death). We are
    the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved.” (Hebrews 10:38-39)

    Paul says some believers turn back to their destruction, but in fact,
    he has NO idea who will remain faithful to the end, or who will turn away!

    “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
    whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God” (1 John 3:10)
    “He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)

    “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
    and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable,
    murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars
    shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
    which is the second death (eternal death).” (Revelation 21:7-8)

    The “cowardly” include believers who fall from the faith when persecuted
    for their Christian faith, or later submit to taking the mark of the beast.

    “But there shall by no means enter it (the New Jerusalem) anything
    that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those
    who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” (Revelation 21:27)

    “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and
    I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life” (Revelation 3:5)


    Jesus gives His definition of who the victorious “overcomer” is …
    “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
    as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)

    Just what did Jesus overcome? Primarily: the world, sin, and the devil.
    We today are the deceived church of Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22).

    “If you refuse to forgive others, your Father won’t forgive your sins.” (Matthew 6:15)
    Unforgiveness blocks you from heaven and also blocks you from being healed!

    “Fear the Lord and keep His commandments … so that you may be saved.
    … So have faith in Him and fear Him and by that fear exercise self-control.
    Keep these commandments. If you do, you will put on the strength of
    righteousness, and cast all wickedness from you, and live to God.”
    (“The Shepherd of Hermas” -- most popular Christian “book” during 100-400 a.d.
    Quoted as Scripture by such as Irenaeas, Clement, Origen, Codex Sinaiticus.
    The Shepherd calls himself: “the Shepherd and messenger of repentance”.)

    “Fear God, who has the power … to throw you into hell” (Luke 12:5)
    “… unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” (Luke 13:3 and 13:5)


    “… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh
    and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God … your sorrow
    (over his first letter to them) led to repentance … For godly sorrow
    produces repentance leading to salvation.” (2 Corinthians 7:1-10)

    Yes, ALL sins will be forgiven through deep and sincere repentance!

    “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9)

    “When the Lord saw that their repentance was good and pure, and that they
    were able to remain in it, He ordered their former sins to be blotted out.”
    (“The Shepherd of Hermas” – he’s not nearly as tactful as the earlier Epistles)

    Has Satan deceived you? ... Has he deceived your church?

    Satan hates God, and he hates you! … He and his demons work
    tirelessly to succeed in having you spend eternity in hell with them.
    “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
    “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
    “the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)
    “he is a liar and the father of it (lies)” (John 8:44)
    “evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world” (Ephesians 6:12)


    Have you been deceived into believing in “once saved, always saved”,
    and that your sins (past, present, and future) have all been forgiven?
    (Also, have you been deceived into believing in a pre-tribulation rapture?)

    Heads-up! The dozens of warnings in the NT are there for a purpose!

    For example: “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey,
    whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … now present
    your bodies as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:16,19)


    Born-agains have been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit
    to free them from their bondage to Satan – and from their slavery to sin!
    Excellent! And its true, that's one of the best posts I've seen since I've been on TOL! And I definitely take those verses to myself they are the truth.

    To truly love God is to be willing to lay down our lives for others and become a living sacrifice and turn from this world of sin to live by the will of God and worship him in Spirit and in truth. And those who endure to the end, and suffer whatsoever is set before them and keep living by God's will and keep their faith, are those who shall be eternally saved. As Jesus said we are to endure to the end to be saved, so once saved always saved is a false teaching.

    We are sealed by that Holy Spirit as long as we live by the will of God and abide in his goodness. God won't keep us if we lust after the flesh and turn again to the world one we've known the truth. (Romans 1) We do this and we crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    And those who endure to the end, and suffer whatsoever is set before them and keep living by God's will and keep their faith, are those who shall be eternally saved. As Jesus said we are to endure to the end to be saved, so once saved always saved is a false teaching.

    We are sealed by that Holy Spirit as long as we live by the will of God and abide in his goodness. God won't keep us if we lust after the flesh and turn again to the world one we've known the truth. (Romans 1) We do this and we crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame.
    You go ahead and see if you can abide, while I'm sitting in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS. BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED. BY GRACE....not by your abiding.

    Eph. 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    NO ASSURANCE = NO SALVATION

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    You go ahead and see if you can abide, while I'm sitting in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS. BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED. BY GRACE....not by your abiding.

    Eph. 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

    NO ASSURANCE = NO SALVATION
    We can't do anything without Gods grace, but that doesn't mean that once we are born of God we can do what we like and God will be ok with that, no he won't. Paul clearly says that we can be cut off if we don't remain in Gods goodness, and he said in Romans 1 That those who knew God and loved their flesh before him, that God was displeased with them and he turned them over to their reprobate minds. So there's no such thing as once saved always saved.

    And why do many of you who say that you are saved by grace miss off through faith? Without faith it is impossible to please God, and faith without works is dead.

    And once we are risen with Christ we and sitting in heavenly places, then we love to please God and not ourselves and we live by his will and carry out the works that God does within our hearts through Christ. And those works glorify God.

    It's not a do nothing gospel, we are to be doers of the word and not hearers only.

    And where does it say NO ASSURANCE = NO SALVATION in the bible? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    I still fail and God is faithful and just... would you please clarify your stance?
    Yes, He is faithful and just to honor His promise in 1 John 1:9,
    which is to cleanse us from our sins, if we confess (repent of) them.
    P.S. This is not about performing "works" (good works/deeds).
    This is just about performing "our reasonable service" (Romans 8:1 or 12:1?).
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    I think you point out a lot of excellent passages that
    many Christians today overlook, purposely, in order to maintain their doctrine.
    Some overlook them because they have been deceived by Satan thru their church.
    Some overlook them because they choose to, as you have said.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    We are sealed by that Holy Spirit as long as we live by the will of God and abide in his goodness. God won't keep us if we lust after the flesh and turn again to the world one we've known the truth. (Romans 1) We do this and we crucify Christ afresh and put him to an open shame.
    Yes, just a few months ago, I discovered that the NT teaches ...
    the Holy Spirit will leave us, if He is offended sufficiently.
    And this gives a whole new meaning to who really is "in Christ".
    (The "in Christ" business I discovered several years ago.)
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    marhig (August 30th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED. BY GRACE....not by your abiding.
    NO ASSURANCE = NO SALVATION
    Initially, we are saved ONLY by grace through faith (not by any works).
    But, this must be maintained.
    Due to dozens of NT passages ...
    to believe must mean more than mere intellectual or heart belief.
    The world-renowned evangelist T.L.Osborne saw this ... and researched it out.
    He was forced to conclude that the NT "believe" must mean:
    to believe, have faith in, trust, and obey ... until death!
    True believers who are doing this are in the will of God (Matthew 7:21),
    and thus have real assurance.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    In several verses in John 14, Jesus repeats:
    "If you love Me, you will keep (obey) My commandments."

    Does anyone get into heaven who does not love Jesus?
    And therefore, does anyone get into heaven who does not keep His commandments?
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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    Over 1500 post club nikolai_42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacharyB View Post
    Of course, you realize what this means, don't you.
    It means that born-agains do NOT have to sin.
    They are NO longer slaves of sin.
    They have been set free indeed.
    They do NOT have to sin.
    They are now free to CHOOSE to NOT sin.
    Ergo, they have NO excuse, if they do sin.
    This is why the new covenant is so far superior to the old one.
    Just a thought here...

    The new birth is radical. It takes a believer-persecuting radical like Saul and turns him into THE apostle to the Gentiles. It takes those who are the worst sinners, cleans them up and makes them new - totally changing their appetites and desires :

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    I Cor 6:9-11

    All that you have quoted has great application - to the one who calls himself a believer - this is true. But when Paul makes the same dire statement to the Corinthian church (of who will not inherit the Kingdom) he doesn't stop there. Instead, he contrasts the works of the flesh with the works of God and says that the Corinthians NO LONGER have that as their identity. And lest we think that means the Corinthians are perfect, he goes on to warn against fornication. Not under the threat of being cut off, but by appealing to the believer's understanding that if they are Christ's, then the Holy Spirit dwells in them and they are defiling the temple of God. He doesn't need to tell them that they in danger of being cut off from God (whether they are or not doesn't change this thought) but instead tells them that they are defiling the temple of God. Someone who has the Holy Spirit is not typically going to need to be told they are in danger of being kicked out of the kingdom. That they are offending God is enough. That they realize that they bring Him into everything they do wakens them to the weight of the sin they commit.

    So the warnings of being utterly lost don't typically have a place in the hearing of the believer. If they need threatenings of (eternal) disinheritance to listen, then one might well question whether they are in the kingdom to begin with. Because how is the believer's inheritance maintained? Is it by his own sinlessness?

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
    Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    I Peter 1:3-5

    Don't get me wrong, there is a time and a place for rather stark threatening - that I believe. But a steady diet of the preaching you seem to espouse only encourages self-trust by focusing on the works of the flesh (my works apart from God) - or sin. "Change your ways or die!" is a little different in tone from "Don't you realize you bring the Holy Spirit into your sin?" and it should be clear that these are meant for different audiences. The first clearly addresses every unregenerate out there. The second will only be heeded by someone who truly has the Holy Spirit. How is the believer kept? By his own strength or the power of God?
    If God promises life, He slayeth first; when He builds, He casteth all down first. God is no patcher; He cannot build on another's foundation. - William Tyndale

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
    Jeremiah 17:9

    Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
    Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

    Isaiah 50:10-11

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    Evil.Eye.<(I)> (August 30th, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by nikolai_42 View Post
    The new birth is radical ... It takes those who are the worst sinners,
    cleans them up and makes them new - totally changing their appetites and desires
    Yes, this is how it is supposed to work.
    But, as evidenced in most N. A. churches ...
    many born-agains choose to follow their flesh instead of the Spirit's still small voice.
    This problem is the reason for the many dozens of warnings to the churches (in the epistles).
    And some of these warning actually threaten losing eternal life!

    Truly, I suggest that you get the revelation of how Paul operates with the churches.
    Jesus taught him over his 17 years in the desert regions (before his ministry began)
    to be extremely tactful as he interspersed his warnings in with ...
    copious amounts of edifications, exhortations, encouragements, promises, etc.
    Who today sees Paul's method of dealing with the churches?
    The Spirit will reveal the authenticity of the warnings to those He chooses.
    (Some believers simply are NOT ready to receive them ... for a variety of reasons.)

    Aren't you down-playing the problem of believers being taught OSAS?
    IMO, it has blinded millions from seeing the truth.

    Also, I feel that you don't realize that ...
    God has always insisted upon co-operation between man and God!
    Today, believers are taught: "Let go, and let God."
    I prefer to say, "Co-operate with the Holy Spirit."
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

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