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Thread: Separation gone too far - the making of a secular state

  1. #61
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    I probably offended him.
    You must be a Nazi
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    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    He uses ignore? Well my my.
    my my-eye my



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  4. #63
    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    You must be a Nazi
    Even Nazi's have their use.

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  6. #64
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Why does Town have you on ignore?
    He never managed to say anything that interested me, but he kept saying an awful lot of it. No idea. He probably walked a low road. I take it he's had a comment or two for me. I'm sure it's all issue oriented. . . I mean, if I can be considered an issue.

    Speaking of public interest...
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    He uses ignore? Well my my.
    You should put yourself on ignore just to see if it impacts your posts.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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  8. #65
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    He never managed to say anything that interested me, but he kept saying an awful lot of it. No idea. He probably walked a low road. I take it he's had a comment or two for me. I'm sure it's all issue oriented. . . I mean, if I can be considered an issue.

    Speaking of public interest...

    You should put yourself on ignore just to see if it impacts your posts.
    You're missing out, @1Mind1Spirit is one of the funniest people here and very smart in the scriptures. He's a very honest and humble Missourian
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    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    You're missing out, @1Mind1Spirit is one of the funniest people here and very smart in the scriptures.
    Anyone can quote scripture, shoot a handgun or play piano, if they have a mind to. I'm more interested in how they're using the first, where they're pointing the second, and what they play to wrap up.

    He's a very honest and humble Missourian
    Those two words never got anyone ignored by me, so I think I'm going to differ with you.

    Ah, okay, the humble, scripture quoting Christian from Missouri showed me something here:

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    Blow it, buddy.
    Later, he took a stab at explaining that into a different, less offensive context, but still one out of bounds for someone using his mouth to quote scripture with regularity, so I decided to split the difference and cut him loose.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

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    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    my my-eye my


    [video=youtube;F21h-XAxYx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21h-XAxYx4[/video]
    This one's my fave.
    People who don't appreciate censored words should skip from 1:30 right to 1:40 and you'll be OK as far as those types of words are concerned. But there is a lot of illicit drug-related word-scattering throughout, so perhaps not play it at all, if youngsters/other impressionables are nearby/within earshot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Anyone can quote scripture, shoot a handgun or play piano, if they have a mind to. I'm more interested in how they're using the first, where they're pointing the second, and what they play to wrap up.


    Those two words never got anyone ignored by me, so I think I'm going to differ with you.

    Ah, okay, the humble, scripture quoting Christian from Missouri showed me something here:



    Later, he took a stab at explaining that into a different, less offensive context, but still one out of bounds for someone using his mouth to quote scripture with regularity, so I decided to split the difference and cut him loose.
    You should really be more like Danoh.

    Anyone in the know knows it's suck never blow.

    Google what a below job is and get edge-a-kated.

    Not only that, that's not when or why you put me on ignore.

    Lyin' freak.

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    Over 4000 post club 1Mind1Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    This one's my fave.
    People who don't appreciate censored words should skip from 1:30 right to 1:40 and you'll be OK as far as those types of words are concerned. But there is a lot of illicit drug-related word-scattering throughout, so perhaps not play it at all, if youngsters/other impressionables are nearby/within earshot.
    Headphones are a nice invention, one can crank em and not offend anybody.

    Unless they think you're ignoring them.

    No wonder scripture says all men are liars, hunh?

    Now laughing at myself.
    Last edited by 1Mind1Spirit; August 31st, 2017 at 09:56 PM. Reason: decided to admit I was lyin'. lol

  17. #70
    Over 3000 post club Jose Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Freedom, not laws after laws denying them.
    Ok, so the founders wanted us to be a country based on freedom. How does that translate into a non-secular state where the government promotes religion?
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Mind1Spirit View Post
    Thank you, 1M1S.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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  21. #72
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jose Fly View Post
    Ok, so the founders wanted us to be a country based on freedom. How does that translate into a non-secular state where the government promotes religion?
    Because government should not stand in the way, and even participate as spectator of anything good and positive, including religion or religious observance and value that promoted a good, loving, caring, and mutual society. We need tolerance and appreciation, not eradication. For instance: Government having a Christmas party at work? Yes. Should be done. Celebrating anything is celebrating. Just don't make these mandatory. Celebrations of anything has no connection to the separation clause because they are all voluntary. The point is to stop lemon-suckers from sucking life out of each and every good thing celebrated in our society. Let's not bow to the inept, inane, and disgruntled. They rarely have any good point or something positive to complain about. I'd suspect you are on page: Frivolous lawsuits should require the disgruntled to pay for all court costs if they lose. It would stop the inane. We are all separated enough without the need for even more partisan interests to further it. Most of us prefer unity and appreciations and getting along where at all possible. -Lon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    For instance: Government having a Christmas party at work? Yes. Should be done. Celebrating anything is celebrating. Just don't make these mandatory. Celebrations of anything has no connection to the separation clause because they are all voluntary.

    For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    The founders believed in God and the logical conclusion of seeking God is Jesus Christ.
    “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
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  27. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Because government should not stand in the way, and even participate as spectator of anything good and positive, including religion or religious observance and value that promoted a good, loving, caring, and mutual society.
    Surely you appreciate that what is or isn't "good and positive" is a subjective call, especially when it comes to religious belief. Even within Christianity there is a lot of disagreement over such things.

    To some Muslim, Christian, and Mormon citizens, it's "good and positive" to prohibit the consumption of alcohol. To other citizens it's "good and positive" to require women to dress modestly. To some Jewish citizens it's "good and positive" to not work on the Sabbath. To Catholic citizens it's "good and positive" for people to go to confession.

    See the point? You're saying that the government should be in the business of evaluating religious beliefs and practices and picking which ones to promote. And that comes with a flip side, where if your beliefs and practices aren't selected for promotion by the government, a reasonable person could conclude that the government has decided your beliefs aren't "good and positive".

    We need tolerance and appreciation, not eradication.
    And nothing is being eradicated.

    For instance: Government having a Christmas party at work? Yes. Should be done. Celebrating anything is celebrating. Just don't make these mandatory. Celebrations of anything has no connection to the separation clause because they are all voluntary.
    You're only thinking of this in terms of your faith being promoted by the government, which is a good indication of what this is really about for you. Imagine being a Christian employee in a government agency where your supervisor and most of your co-workers are Muslim. They decide to hold voluntary celebrations of every Muslim holiday. Would you feel in any way that not attending or participating might affect your status in the office or your relationship with your supervisor? Most reasonable people would.

    And what if you requested to celebrate Christmas and Easter and your supervisor said "Well, you're the only Christian in this office so it wouldn't really be worth the effort"?

    See, you can only think of this in terms of you being in the majority position and being the one whose religion is being promoted by the government.

    The point is to stop lemon-suckers from sucking life out of each and every good thing celebrated in our society. Let's not bow to the inept, inane, and disgruntled. They rarely have any good point or something positive to complain about.
    So those who say "I don't want the government coercing me to follow a religion I don't believe in, or spending my tax dollars to promote that religion" need to just learn to shut up?

    This is exactly what I mean.....you're only thinking of this in terms of you being in the majority position.

    I'd suspect you are on page: Frivolous lawsuits should require the disgruntled to pay for all court costs if they lose. It would stop the inane. We are all separated enough without the need for even more partisan interests to further it. Most of us prefer unity and appreciations and getting along where at all possible. -Lon
    And to you, "getting along" means "the government promotes my religion, and anyone who doesn't like it can just shut up".

    I also have to wonder....if this is what you think the founding fathers truly meant for this country to be, why didn't they just write it down? Because what we have from them strongly indicates that their intent was for us to have a secular government. Surely if they actually wanted the opposite, they could have just said so in clear terms.
    "The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous." --H.L. Mencken

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