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Thread: Request for Clarity about Judaism and D'ism

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    How 'on earth' do you have that conclusion--that the NHNE is 2000 years away?
    We are nearing the end of the sixth day which was given to man to do his thing.

    Next comes the millennial Sabbath when Christ will do his thing.

    After the millennial Sabbath comes the Great Day, the Eighth Day.

    At the end of the Eighth Day the earth will be destroyed.

    "So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the Lord for seven days, the first day is a day of Sabbath rest, and the Eighth Day also is a day of Sabbath rest." (Leviticus 23:39)

    A seven day feast of tabernacles and then an Eighth Day of judgment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    We are nearing the end of the sixth day which was given to man to do his thing.

    Next comes the millennial Sabbath when Christ will do his thing.

    After the millennial Sabbath comes the Great Day, the Eighth Day.

    At the end of the Eighth Day the earth will be destroyed.

    "So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the Lord for seven days, the first day is a day of Sabbath rest, and the Eighth Day also is a day of Sabbath rest." (Leviticus 23:39)

    A seven day feast of tabernacles and then an Eighth Day of judgment.




    Well, you 've got the 8th day as an additional sabbath, which is mistaken. and then you end by saying it is a day of judgement.

    There is no indication at all in the NT that God is doing this with history. The Hebrew expressions about the genealogies can stretch back further than 4000 BC and that's significant because there are so many geologic catastrophic indicators at about 9000YA (Lake Missoula, Lake Morse, Niagara, etc) which places them with Noah's flood.

    Why didn't something happen in 280 AD which would be one "day" of generations after the 6 "days" of generations listed in Mt 1? Each day being 7 x 40 years.
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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Well, you 've got the 8th day as an additional sabbath, which is mistaken. and then you end by saying it is a day of judgement.
    Hold on, I quoted Leviticus but I was not the original author.

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them and judgment was committed to them." (Revelation 20:4)

    "He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day." (John 12:48)

    So when is the Last Day?

    "On the Last Day, that Great Day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.'" (John 7:37)

    The Last Day follows the seven day feast.

    Jesus Christ will available for life on the Last Day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Hold on, I quoted Leviticus but I was not the original author.

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them and judgment was committed to them." (Revelation 20:4)

    "He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day." (John 12:48)

    So when is the Last Day?

    "On the Last Day, that Great Day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.'" (John 7:37)

    The Last Day follows the seven day feast.

    Jesus Christ will available for life on the Last Day.





    But I can't accept another 1000 years after a 7th day even if I believed that. We are in christ's sabbath right now, through faith in the Gospel, see Hebrews.

    Like many times in Psalms and the prophets 1000 simply means a huge number. God owns more than the cattle on 1000 hills, but it does say 1000.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Hold on, I quoted Leviticus but I was not the original author.

    "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them and judgment was committed to them." (Revelation 20:4)

    "He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the Last Day." (John 12:48)

    So when is the Last Day?

    "On the Last Day, that Great Day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, 'If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.'" (John 7:37)

    The Last Day follows the seven day feast.

    Jesus Christ will available for life on the Last Day.




    How about dealing the OP questions? Do you generally derail every thread you find?
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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    How about dealing the OP questions? Do you generally derail every thread you find?
    "If D'ism has a different eschatology than Judaism had 2000 years go"

    This is the scriptural eschatology, the true eschatology.

    I don't know what D'ism is, it's not scriptural.

    And you are not the only one on TOL who does not believe scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    "If D'ism has a different eschatology than Judaism had 2000 years go"

    This is the scriptural eschatology, the true eschatology.

    I don't know what D'ism is, it's not scriptural.

    And you are not the only one on TOL who does not believe scripture.




    Jamie, I think you've mistaken some players in the picture:

    D'ism is Dispensationalism. That is the belief that there are two programs in the Bible, one for Israel the race, and one for believers by faith. D'ism does not believe that the one for Israel drops out of the picture. As you might guess, it is extremely close to Judaism itself.

    The eschatology that Judaism had 2000 years ago is not the truth. The NT is quite different. A new order or reformation of all things took place, says heb 9-10, and obviously from that passage you can see that Judaism's role is not retained by Christian faith; there is conflict.

    Or you can check places like Jn 12:34. The Law = Judaism. It thought a kingdom was coming forever. But Paul says that that view is veiled and that only in Christ do we truly grasp what the OT was saying.

    To be clear, as you may have seen from many posts here, D'ists like RD, STP, PJ, Musterion, Tam, don't believe that 'in Christ' is a doctrine or concept that shifts anything in the NT. They retain Judaism in many ways and things. STP said this week that "believers" in the old covenant have an eternal place like Christians do! So they end up saying there are other ways to be saved, or that 'saved' means many things, all to avoid conflict with Judaism, which, you must see, is not how the early church did things.

    what on earth does your last line mean? You say you don't believe D'ism. You have been talking about a D'ist eschatology and since I don't accept it you say I don't believe scripture.
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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    since I don't accept it you say I don't believe scripture.
    I believe in dispensations. Scripture says there are three.

    1) the world that then was, 2) this present evil age, 3) the world to come.

    In post 19 you said, "But I can't accept another 1000 years after a 7th day even if I believed that. We are in christ's sabbath right now, through faith in the Gospel, see Hebrews."

    What you said is not scriptural.

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    The previous dispensation that matters was the Law, not the pre-flood world, if that's what you meant. (There are a few lines in Rom 5 where that world matters, but not much). The previous/law dispensation is what is meant in Gal 3-4, Eph 1.

    On Christ's sabbath from 'work': Heb 4, that's the only topic there in that chapter.

    Most of the NT is written with the post-exilic Judaism as the background. Law usually means that kind of Judaism, and the old covenant is usually that kind of mistakes and misconceptions that it had, for ex., that God dealt with the race not with those who have faith; cp Jn 1:12. But there are many passages where Paul explains that as well. It never was to be about one race; post-exile Judaism thought so, however. D'ism shares that view and has turned the Bible into a two-headed puzzle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Sorry STP another miserable solution and use of the NT. See Eph 4, take some percoset for your pain, you will get over it.

    There is no such 3 part solution in the NT. There is no such thing as an old covenant believer. It is an annual reminder of sins.

    When are you going to read Heb 9-10 10x instead of post madness here?
    Made up.
    Become a Bible believer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    But I can't accept another 1000 years after a 7th day even if I believed that.
    Too bad God did not consult you first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    I believe in dispensations. Scripture says there are three.

    1) the world that then was, 2) this present evil age, 3) the world to come.

    In post 19 you said, "But I can't accept another 1000 years after a 7th day even if I believed that. We are in christ's sabbath right now, through faith in the Gospel, see Hebrews."

    What you said is not scriptural.




    Jamie,
    going back to your first comment here, it is still a bit confusing. Could you re-read and see if it how you meant to say?
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    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    If D'ists mean that there is a parallel separate Christian group of Jews in the church, what about the 7 Ones of Eph 4?
    Who said there are? We tell you there isn't. You are one blithering idiot.


    Why are there letters to Jewish Christians (as D'ists claim) that have the exact same benefits as for non-Jews?
    They don't have the same benefits, but there is one giant overlapping thing that binds us together. Eternal life with Christ.
    Last edited by Nick M; August 28th, 2017 at 06:52 PM.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Who said there are? We tell you there isn't. You are on blithering idiot.




    They don't have the same benefits, but there is one giant overlapping thing that binds us together. Eternal life with Christ.




    STP, RD, Steko, Tam and Must say that first one just about every day. STP is slightly more detailed in having three kinds of "believers" with three kinds of benefits in 3 locations.

    Corresponding to that is the beliefs about the letters. They've got the NT chopped into various compartmented messages. They hit the ceiling if you say Paul used a temple analogy or Peter said that we believers are a kingdom of priests, because it ruins their artificial categories which "made sense" of the Bible.

    Their thinking is so much muck that it is very possible they have never heard any feedback about what they sound like or how contradictory it is.

    There is incessant denial about what Gal 3 means, or Acts 13, or 26, or Heb 9-10, or even that the gospels and both Corinthians refer to the current new covenant ministry--all because it would bust D'ism if they agreed.

    But as the OP says, the main question is: do they realize they are doing what Judaism did, and actually come down on the side of Judaism most of the time?

    That's why it was so strange when PJ gave his corny 'well (there's no conflict, really), those people in Judaism just didn't 'accept Christ as personal Lord and Savior.' Talk about pounding history to smithereens with 20th century soundbytes!
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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Jamie, going back to your first comment here, it is still a bit confusing. Could you re-read and see if it how you meant to say?
    Scripture defines three dispensations (three different periods in history).

    However, people can add as many as suits them, and do.

    It doesn't change what is stated in scripture.

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