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Thread: The Rebellion that Desolates

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    Quote Originally Posted by northwye View Post
    Psalm 41: 9 says "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me."

    Then John 13: 18 says "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."

    Matthew 26: 14-15: "Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests,
    15. And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver."

    "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17: 12

    Perdition is from απωλειας, apoleias.

    "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." II Thessalonians 2: 3

    Perdition is from, ἀπώλεια,apoleia, See: http://biblehub.com/greek/684.htm

    "apóleia. Short Definition: destruction, ruin, loss"
    "Definition: destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin."

    "684 apṓleia (from 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") – destruction, causing someone (something) to be completely severed – cut off (entirely) from what could or should have been. (Note the force of the prefix, apo.) See 622 (apollymi)."

    Daniel 9: 27: "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    Is the overspreading of abomination by which he shall make it desolate in Daniel 9: 27 the same thing as the man of sin, the son of perdition, sitting in the temple of God in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4?

    Remember that Acts 7: 48 says "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet."

    I Corinthians 3: 16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    I Corinthians 6: 19: "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

    God does not dwell in temples made by human hands in the New Covenant? So how could II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 be a literal prophecy saying that the man of sin is to sit in the temple of God.opposing God and claiming to be God, as the abomination of desolation?

    The Greek word apoleias in John 17: 12 and apoleia in II Thessalonians 2: 3 are the only uses of this word in the New Testament. The word means destruction, ruin, loss, perishing, eternal ruin. And that word in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is associated with an αποστασια, apostasy.

    Paul is using the man of sin in II Thessalonains 2: 3-4 who is the son of perdition - or of spiritual destruction and ruin - sitting in the temple of God in a way that is not literal because of Acts 7: 48, I Corinthians 3: 16 and i Corinthians 6: 19.

    The falling away that Paul is predicting in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 is said to involve a spiritual destruction or ruin, The man of sin sits in the temple of God which in the New Covenant is the hearts and minds of the believers. This occupation of the hearts and minds of the believers then must be the spiritual destruction or ruin.

    And so, is the focus of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 upon an abomination of desolation, as a literal desecration of the temple of God which is not honored by God in the New Covenant, or an event such as The Great Revolt, the first of the rebellions by the Jews against the Roman Empire, which was an attempt to maintain Talmudic Judaism, not only against Rome but also against Christ and his Everlasting New Covenant?

    The question of an apostasy happening within the hearts and minds of believers in the First Century is what has to be raised here for II Thessalonians 2: 3-4. In fact, a major apostasy within Christianity did not occur until after Constantine - after AD 312. The Jewish revolt in the First Century was not an apostasy within Chrisitanity, but an opposition of those who wanted to maintain the Old Covenant to those who opposed them.




    But North, it is timestamped as happening within those 490 years and to the generation which were babes when Christ slaved under the cross and would be adults in a few decades, Lk 23. The language is wrapping up dealings with Israel. This keeps Mt24A in Judea and ordinary language. If he warns about fleeing on the Sabbath, it then makes sense because Judaisers were like the Taliban about Sabbath enforcement. Etc, Etc. There were rebel groups meeting in the desert and in rooms in the standing temple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    But North, it is timestamped as happening within those 490 years and to the generation which were babes when Christ slaved under the cross and would be adults in a few decades, Lk 23. The language is wrapping up dealings with Israel. This keeps Mt24A in Judea and ordinary language. If he warns about fleeing on the Sabbath, it then makes sense because Judaisers were like the Taliban about Sabbath enforcement. Etc, Etc. There were rebel groups meeting in the desert and in rooms in the standing temple.
    Who was the man of sin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Who was the man of sin?
    You see STP....
    • Man doesn't really mean "man".
    • Sin doesn't really mean "sin".
    • Who doesn't really mean "who".
    • etc.
    • etc.
    • etc.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Who was the man of sin?
    Come on - every knows who that is...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iaR3WO71j4&app=desktop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You see STP....
    • Man doesn't really mean "man".
    • Sin doesn't really mean "sin".
    • Who doesn't really mean "who".
    • etc.
    • etc.
    • etc.




    No, it's actually answered by the other scriptures I have been putting forth. You guys claim to be the only people in the world who compare text with text. BS.

    I've addressed the leader of the rebellion, the son of perdition, the man of sin and AC 1000x. Where is your memory? Where is your honesty?

    All you do is be dishonest all day. You don't read, don't quote don't go back 3 months. Never. it's just one snide remark after another, to protect Chafer and his madness that he fixed the Bible.

    That's you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    No, it's actually answered by the other scriptures I have been putting forth. You guys claim to be the only people in the world who compare text with text. BS.

    I've addressed the leader of the rebellion, the son of perdition, the man of sin and AC 1000x. Where is your memory? Where is your honesty?

    All you do is be dishonest all day. You don't read, don't quote don't go back 3 months. Never. it's just one snide remark after another, to protect Chafer and his madness that he fixed the Bible.

    That's you.
    Made up. Who is he?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    All you do is be dishonest all day.
    Thick thick irony...
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Thick thick irony...
    He is a cancellationist ironist of the thickest kind.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    No, it's actually answered by the other scriptures I have been putting forth. You guys claim to be the only people in the world who compare text with text. BS.

    I've addressed the leader of the rebellion, the son of perdition, the man of sin and AC 1000x. Where is your memory? Where is your honesty?

    All you do is be dishonest all day. You don't read, don't quote don't go back 3 months. Never. it's just one snide remark after another, to protect Chafer and his madness that he fixed the Bible.

    That's you.
    Who caused the sacrifice and oblation to stop, who made the temple desolate with an image, who demanded to be worshiped as God in the temple?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    He is a cancellationist ironist of the thickest kind.





    And how do you describe Chafer's madness?
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    You see STP....
    • Man doesn't really mean "man".
    • Sin doesn't really mean "sin".
    • Who doesn't really mean "who".
    • etc.
    • etc.
    • etc.




    I have no idea why you would say that when I have written out that the leader of the rebellion (a Barrabas-type character) would have been who Christ and Paul had in mind about these things, who claimed messianic status, divine intervention and ruined the country.

    You and your complimentors are vapid.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    And how do you describe Chafer's madness?
    I don't need to describe his Acts 2 confusion. He's not here posting even more convoluted nonsense like you.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    I have no idea why you would say that when I have written out that the leader of the rebellion (a Barrabas-type character) would have been who Christ and Paul had in mind about these things, who claimed messianic status, divine intervention and ruined the country.

    You and your complimentors are vapid.
    And this from a guy that insists that mnuwchah should be translated TOXIC. You're a complete joke.

    H4496 מְנוּחָה mnuwchah (men-oo-chaw') n-f.
    מְנֻחָה mnuchah (men-oo-chaw')
    1. repose.
    2. (adverbially) peacefully.
    3. (figuratively) consolation.
    4. (specifically) matrimony.
    5. (hence, concretely) an abode.
    [feminine of H4495]
    KJV: comfortable, ease, quiet, rest(-ing place), still.
    Root(s): H4495

    H4495 מָנוֹחַ Manowach (maw-no'-ach) n/p.
    1. complete rest.
    2. Manoach, an Israelite.
    [from H5117]
    KJV: Manoah.
    Root(s): H5117
    See also: H4496, H4494
    [?]
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I don't need to describe his Acts 2 confusion. He's not here posting even more convoluted nonsense like you.




    Thanks for calling it what his confusion is. Do you have a reference or quote about him on that, on Acts 2? I'm just referring to him calling the Bible confusing/conflicting messages, which of course it is, if it has 2P2P in it and if Acts 2 was actually about a theocracy X000 years later than that moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    And this from a guy that insists that mnuwchah should be translated TOXIC. You're a complete joke.

    H4496 מְנוּחָה mnuwchah (men-oo-chaw') n-f.
    מְנֻחָה mnuchah (men-oo-chaw')
    1. repose.
    2. (adverbially) peacefully.
    3. (figuratively) consolation.
    4. (specifically) matrimony.
    5. (hence, concretely) an abode.
    [feminine of H4495]
    KJV: comfortable, ease, quiet, rest(-ing place), still.
    Root(s): H4495

    H4495 מָנוֹחַ Manowach (maw-no'-ach) n/p.
    1. complete rest.
    2. Manoach, an Israelite.
    [from H5117]
    KJV: Manoah.
    Root(s): H5117
    See also: H4496, H4494
    [?]



    Hmmm, maybe the people who wrote H####s didn't know very much about the Judean / Aramean desert! Or the fluidity of Hebrew! Maybe they used to work at BMW in Germany where every mechanical part has a totally distinct name.
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