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Thread: The Rebellion that Desolates

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    The Rebellion that Desolates

    The abomination that desolates is first of all a grammatical phrase in which there is cause and effect. There has to be an evil thing and what it does results in the destruction of the country.

    The expression starts, however, as 'the rebellion that desolates' in 8:13. By starts I mean that this is the first spot where this kind of expression is used in Biblical language, the last being the Mt 24 and parallels.

    When the 4th of the kingdoms in succession comes, there is a rebellion lead by an exceedingly evil person against the 4th kingdom over Israel, and his rebellion ruins the country. He makes blasphemous claims and bites off more than he can chew.

    In ch 9, the same is called the 'abomination' that does that. We learn that it will happen in about 490 years in events that are overwhelmingly catastrophic for Israel, while the prince of that 4th kingdom over Israel is there. Also we learn that Messiah will be cut off (die) but that death will accomplish several redemptive things at the same time. Ie, Israel is destroyed but Messiah succeeds.

    The end of this event will sweep the country 'like a flood.' That means it was the most devastating thing to happen since the Noah cataclysm, and the destruction of Israel in the 1st century was indeed one of the epic destructive events of antiquity.

    The only expression of Daniel which Jesus quoted on was the AofD. He said that when you see him operating in the temple, get out of the country.

    It had to be something a person from Israel would do (to be an abomination) and we know that it was first called a rebellion. And it had to indeed ruin the country. And happen in the 490 year era. That means it was the destruction by the zealot/Judaizer rebellion in Judea in that generation of Christ.

    The whole period from the rebellion of Judas (not the disciple but certainly a name-coincidence) in 6 AD (about the census) to the event of Masada is often called the Great Revolt in Israel's history, the last 7 years being called the Jewish War.

    But it is the person seizing the temple and using it for this supposed divine-assisted revolt by scandalous followers of Judaism that is the AofD. There were 3 factions among the zealots after Titus resumed the siege of Jerusalem in 68, allowing his father Vespasian to rule the Eastern Empire: John of Gischala (in Galilee); Simon bar Giora and a third by Phineas. These three fought each other for control of Jerusalem, but only managed to weaken any hope for victory. John of Gischala won out; but any of the 3 would have been the AofD signal to leave.

    However, as you know, Lk 21 does not say the person is the signal, but simply that when the city is surrounded that the Christians were to leave. (It doesn't say the surrounding is the AofD; it simply says it is time to leave). This was a problem at first in 67. Because Vespasian's encirclement was too tight. But the civil dispute in Rome interrupted the siege work in 67. Vespasian left and the control was relaxed. Many Christians left Jerusalem at that time and regathered in Pella, a Greek-speaking city.

    As Lk 13 asks, 'how can you with an army of 10,000, take on an army of 20,000? Shouldn't you seek 'terms of peace' instead?' Lk 19 then says Israel would not seek 'terms of peace' and would be destroyed because of that. The AofD was the cocky and scandalous and willful act of the leader(s) of the Jewish revolt of that period to think God would help them fight off Rome, in the most pathetic of conditions. It was total folly and a total failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The abomination that desolates is first of all a grammatical phrase in which there is cause and effect. There has to be an evil thing and what it does results in the destruction of the country.
    100% made up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    You do not know the abomination of desolation, when the man of sin erects an image in the Temple and demands worship as God, from a hole in the ground.

    Put down the commentaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Several first century Judean documents/writings show the depth of belief that God was going to intervene in a dramatic war 'against the sons of darkness.' Most are in the DSS collection: the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Several first century Judean documents/writings show the depth of belief that God was going to intervene in a dramatic war 'against the sons of darkness.' Most are in the DSS collection: the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery.
    In other words, your replacement misrepresentations are nothing new.

    Must be why Scripture written during the first century warns against your kind, even way back when - "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand" - 2 Thessalonians 2:2.

    You're in poor company, IP.

    Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8.

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    Somehow the discovery of these scrolls, not supporting D'ism, is hardly known around D'ist circles.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Several first century Judean documents/writings show the depth of belief that God was going to intervene in a dramatic war 'against the sons of darkness.' Most are in the DSS collection: the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery.
    You do not know the abomination of desolation, when the man of sin erects an image in the Temple and demands worship as God, from a hole in the ground.

    Put down the commentaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Actually, it's worse than not known; it's a 'sin' to know. It's even a sin to know who Judas the Galilean was, even though mentioned in Acts 5.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Somehow the discovery of these scrolls, not supporting D'ism, is hardly known around D'ist circles.
    Read the book years ago.

    As now, so then, all those centuries ago - the same old, same old - the superstitions of a collective out of disenfranchised individuals - making up all sorts of self-important notions, off in some cave somewhere.

    Charllotesville, AD.

    Today, such might call theirs The Alt-Right Scriptures - and be found just as self-deluded.

    Nothing new under the sun.

    Other than under too much Sun

    Put away your OVER reliance on the endless books "about" IP.

    Try...THE Son.

    Rom. 5:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Actually, it's worse than not known; it's a 'sin' to know. It's even a sin to know who Judas the Galilean was, even though mentioned in Acts 5.
    Feeling a bit disenfranchised, IP?

    Try OVER relying on Romans 5.

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    I decided to read Danoh's comment. It is irrelevant. A figure in Jewish history from that time is a figure no matter how many times I read rom 5 and get Danoh's solar radiation.

    He has nothing that matters to say about the essay on the Rebellion that desolated Israel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    I decided to read Danoh's comment. It is irrelevant. A figure in Jewish history from that time is a figure no matter how many times I read rom 5 and get Danoh's solar radiation.

    He has nothing that matters to say about the essay on the Rebellion that desolated Israel.
    lol - I'm standing here reading your post and cracking up at what the expression on your face must have been as you wrote that.

    Rom. 5:8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    He has nothing that matters to say about the essay on the Rebellion that desolated Israel.
    Made up. It's about the desolation of the temple, by the man of sin.
    Daniel is full of details about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Actually, it's worse than not known; it's a 'sin' to know. It's even a sin to know who Judas the Galilean was, even though mentioned in Acts 5.
    You do not know the abomination of desolation, when the man of sin erects an image in the Temple and demands worship as God, from a hole in the ground.

    Put down the commentaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Josephus JEWISH WAR, Book 2, lines 252 + provide several paragraphs that swerve close to situations in Acts. A person should know them when reading Acts and Mt24, Mk 13, Lk 21. The Jewish archeologist Cornfeld has also provided notes on these in his illustrated edition of JEWISH WAR, Zondervan, 1982.

    A sizeable amount goes into the Egyptian terrorist which Paul was thought to be, Acts 21. He had apparently heard the Mt. Olives line of Jesus (or of Zech) because he was promising his 4000 followers to arrive there where they would see the Roman garrison tumble, in a Jericho-type event, and thus insure his status as a prophet.

    Cornfeld shows that there were such messianic-overthrow movements all through the 4th-6th decades. But Cornfeld believes Christ's remarks about them in Mt 24A were in support--'you will see wars and revolutions and that's a good thing.' Cornfeld provides little explanation or defense. He believes Josephus failed to meantion Jesus as a revolutionist simply because there were so many. Conservative Pharisees believed in a Son of David, but shushed those who whipped up crowds and tried 'to hasten the coming of Messiah.'

    These facts show that the intention of the Luke-Acts account was to show that Paul was not a revolutionary like the others mentioned, even though totally aware of what they wanted. Instead he was there to preach something which was not invested in a revolt for independence.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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