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Thread: The Rebellion that Desolates

  1. #271
    Silver Member SaulToPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    Once again, it is entirely understandable to think that the "He" of v27 would refer grammatically to the destroying "ruler" and not Messiah. But that introduces a deceptive meaning to confirm and to covenant, and the person who causes desolation, already identified, has not yet been named in 25-27 and is not until 27b.
    Which covenant did the prince of chapter 11 turn against in the intertestament period?
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    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
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    You're too literal to get it.
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    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  3. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    There is also the issue of fault. Why would God judge a country for something another party did?
    Because they rejected the true Christ, and entered into covenant with the anti Christ.
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    You're too literal to get it.
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    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  5. #273
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    Regarding Daniel 11 being about the past, about a figure during the "intertestament period":


    Daniel 11
    11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


    He comes to his end. And now the first verse of the next chaper.


    Daniel 12
    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



    There is 0% chance that this is about anything other than the very end of this world as we know it, just before the LORD Jesus Christ makes his glorious return.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    What is your reasoning for this?
    Who was the person of chapter 11, then? Who fulfilled all of these details?



    Background I've read, even by McDowell. I'm content to go with the passage Christ used in the timeframe he meant. It is locked into that generation. Christ even goes and uses the 'not since creation' expression about it.

    The quagmire is caused by 2P2P removing this from a normal conversation about what was going to happen to them in that generation, with all its immediate Judean warnings. To complete its insult, 2P2P asks: where are the passages about that generation in the NT, about the immediate expectation? The way to jam the opponent is to undercut the obvious, just like evolution about the cataclysm: "There is no evidence anywhere of a global flood"--Wikipedia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Background I've read, even by McDowell. I'm content to go with the passage Christ used in the timeframe he meant. It is locked into that generation. Christ even goes and uses the 'not since creation' expression about it.

    The quagmire is caused by 2P2P removing this from a normal conversation about what was going to happen to them in that generation, with all its immediate Judean warnings. To complete its insult, 2P2P asks: where are the passages about that generation in the NT, about the immediate expectation? The way to jam the opponent is to undercut the obvious, just like evolution about the cataclysm: "There is no evidence anywhere of a global flood"--Wikipedia.
    Who was the person of chapter 11, then? Who fulfilled all of these details?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  10. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Regarding Daniel 11 being about the past, about a figure during the "intertestament period":


    Daniel 11
    11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


    He comes to his end. And now the first verse of the next chaper.


    Daniel 12
    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
    12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



    There is 0% chance that this is about anything other than the very end of this world as we know it, just before the LORD Jesus Christ makes his glorious return.
    Still stand by this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  12. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Daniel 11
    11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
    11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

    If this is history, who was the prince of the covenant?
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    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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  14. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    If this is history, who was the prince of the covenant?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Who was the person of chapter 11, then? Who fulfilled all of these details?




    You're thinking: this vision(s) in Daniel are exact punchlists, like you were assembling a Prius. You think you're going to find an exact event for each item.

    I don't think any thinking person reading Dan 8-9 would think so. I don't think the original reader of 'cut off' would realize the exact way that was done, but they WOULD see the paradox: while that happens to Messiah, and the country is ruined, Messiah actually SUCCEEDED.

    "The end will come like a flood." Wow that's just absolute precision, isn't it? But it is specific enough for Christ to use the same flood analogy in Mt 24B. That's good enough for me.

    The material is already confined to the 490 period, even with the elastic ending. And since a major rebellion broke out due to the census, it had been going on for some time, as the passage says.

    btw, where is your pounding on Wick for quoting Enoch about 28 generations after Messiah? "Outside the Bible" tsk, tsk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're thinking: this vision(s) in Daniel are exact punchlists, like you were assembling a Prius. You think you're going to find an exact event for each item.
    Why shouldn't we?
    Who was the prince of the covenant of chapter 11?
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Why shouldn't we?
    Who was the prince of the covenant of chapter 11?
    The Bible is mere putty in the hands of the master IP.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You think you're going to find an exact event for each item.
    I have no doubt that the Word of God is PRECISE.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    If this is history, who was the prince of the covenant?
    There is no point in further discussion if this person from chapter 11 cannot be identified.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    I have no doubt that the Word of God is PRECISE.
    I guess that IP thinks that God just put some fluff in His Word, as if He's a fiction author.
    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

    Has Amos 9:15 been cancelled?

    Eph 2:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)
    (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    The list: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?...quot-list-quot Great Bible software: http://www.theword.net/

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  27. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Divider View Post
    I guess that IP thinks that God just put some fluff in His Word, as if He's a fiction author.
    Yes, he certainly comes across as one who believes 98% of the Bible is filler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    You're too literal to get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

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