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Thread: Are people born in Christ or born in sin?

  1. #76
    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Fully Man but fully (sinless) God.
    Yes, Jesus proved he was mortal prior to his resurrection.

    Was he fully God?

    "Then Jesus answered and said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself'" (John 5:19)

    Wow, Jesus was just like us.

    "Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:17)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    This is a false equivalency to my question of "how can you be born in Christ before physical birth."

    Yet, I shall answer, thus illustrating the fallacy.

    Christ was crucified approximately 33 BC. Christ is the sacrifice for us, yes.

    "Did Christ die for you": Yes. He died so that the world might have eternal life.

    "How could He when I was not yet born": (here is your fallacy) Christ is eternal. Thus, He is not confined to the natural limits, such as death, time, etc. Therefore, Christ has the ability to absolve my sins. But I, a mere mortal, am confined by natural limits. Thus, I could not possess faith before my birth. If I could, I would be supernatural, existing on a plane of reality beyond mortality.
    You misunderstood my post. Again, people are born in Christ, instead of born in sin. What is it that you don't understand with my position?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    To start with, what, to you, does the Bible tell us in these verses:

    KJV Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    KJV Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

    Can we then say "conceived in sin but sanctified before birth"?

    Can anyone show one or two Bible verses to warrant the belief that people are born in sin?
    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    End of debate.

    Rom. 5:8
    Acts 17:11,12

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    He had a Divine nature and a human nature. The rest of us only have a human nature.

    God didn't create anyone with a sin nature, nor is sin passed down like a genetic disease.
    God did not create sinful nature, yes. But sin is passed down. Examples include: Genesis 3, beginning with verse 16, we see mankind inheriting the burdens caused by Adam and Eve's sin. Exodus 20:5, demonstrates the sins of the Hebrews being passed onto even the third and fourth generations. Deuteronomy 5:9, as well.

    What sin is passed down? Original sin. That prideful, sinful nature, began by Adam and Eve.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    33 BC? Really? I don't think so.
    I meant AD. My fault.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You misunderstood my post. Again, people are born in Christ, instead of born in sin. What is it that you don't understand with my position?
    I believe I do understand your position. But if you disagree, please explain it to me.

    If you need a question, which would demonstrate your position, if answered clearly, I can provide it: How and when is a person "born in Christ?"
    When a child is born, are they born with original sin?


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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    I meant AD. My fault.
    So you believe Jesus was entombed Friday night and Saturday night?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    You misunderstood my post. Again, people are born in Christ, instead of born in sin. What is it that you don't understand with my position?
    Jesus is the Christ and as a human man he said that like us he could do nothing of himself.

    And yet he was saved from death never to die again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    End of debate.

    Rom. 5:8
    Acts 17:11,12
    Oh, really? Where's the verse that says people are born in sin?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    God did not create sinful nature, yes.
    Who did?

    Paul said, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God for it does not submit to God's law, indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:7-8 ESV)

    Did Adam and Eve have their mind on their flesh or on their spirit?

    "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate." (Genesis 3:6 ESV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    I believe I do understand your position. But if you disagree, please explain it to me.

    If you need a question, which would demonstrate your position, if answered clearly, I can provide it: How and when is a person "born in Christ?"
    Being the loving Father that He is, God through Christ saved His child Adam from drowning in sin the same day he fell into it, by implementing the plan of salvation He devised before the beginning of time, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. With Adam in Christ, all His descendants are born in Christ. All because of God's grace.
    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    When a child is born, are they born with original sin?
    No.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samie View Post
    Oh, really? Where's the verse that says people are born in sin?
    They are not born IN sin, they are born TO sin.

    And so Christ came to redeem them and to restore their dominion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    So you believe Jesus was entombed Friday night and Saturday night?
    Yes.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Yes.
    What about Thursday night?

    "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40)

    What happened to the other night? We're missing one.

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    Psalm 51:5New International Version (NIV)

    5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
    sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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