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Thread: Lucifer and the Ancient Earth

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    In English we would not have to assume, day one would be the first day by definition.

    And one modifies a noun such as one team, one family, one kingdom, one whatever.
    I am not sure why you say it is "by definition" in English. I don't see that definition in Webster's. It is understood from context in the English also.

    The use of "one", "echad" in Genesis 1 is a little odd in the Hebrew. Why that is relevant to this discussion I don't know. Explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    In the Complete Jewish Bible it is written: "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad."

    This is different from Genesis 22:2 JCB: "Take your son, your only son."

    The word "only" is yachid and means sole (only).

    Deuteronomy 6:4 uses echad not yachid.
    Again, this is simple.
    "Echad" meand "one" is is used hundreds of times in the Bible
    "Yachid" means only. Is is used a handful of times.

    You are driving at this idea that "echad" is different from the English number "one". That somehow it indicates a plurality that the English "one" doesn't. The idea is wrong, complete nonsense. It is propagated by some Christian sites, but it simply isn't true.

    If "echad" means some kind of plurality- how does one count in Hebrew?

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    God is both "one" and "plural" at the same time.

    Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent Me.
    Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    At Sinai, you sat at the feet of the Holy One of Israel, your Redeemer, and ate and drank. And yet, today, you know not your Redeemer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    God is both "one" and "plural" at the same time.

    Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent Me.
    Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

    At Sinai, you sat at the feet of the Holy One of Israel, your Redeemer, and ate and drank. And yet, today, you know not your Redeemer.
    Our Redeemer is God.

    Is is quite simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    Our Redeemer is God.

    Is is quite simple.
    Just what has He redeemed you from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    You are driving at this idea that "echad" is different from the English number "one".
    Not at all. In English the word "one" can be an adjective or a pronoun.

    In Deuteronomy 6:4 "one" is an adjective modifying eternal being, but it does not specify the number of eternal beings nor does it specify which eternal being. In other words it does not support the premise there is only one eternal being. There is a word that means only one, but that is not the word used in Deuteronomy 6:4.

    The New Testament is a commentary on the Hebrew Bible explaining things not obvious in the Hebrew Bible, for example the number of eternal beings in the days of Moses.

    The NT makes clear that the Most High is the God of Israel's fathers, but it was not the Most High who brought Jacob's people out of Egypt.

    The exodus of the people was commanded by the Most High but executed by Christ.

    Christ is now the King of Israel on behalf of the Most High and is the person referred to in Deuteronomy 6:4.

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    re the video
    At 2:00, Langford went into the 2nd level or analogy of the formless and void period, instead of a text study of what it says. That kind of it is ultimately confusing. It isn't really til the 11th minute that the real question comes out: why would God call 'formless and void' good? Of course, He didn't. He called the redemption of F&V good.

    We can't know the spiritual before the actual and ordinary has been explained.

    It's just not clear on decisive stuff. For ex., a person might think a very old creation is 'creation' when 'creation' is used later in things like Ps 19 or Rom 1. It's not. 'Creation' at that point is what God did in v3. What needs to be said is that the Bible is quite complete about the history that matters to us. It is sparse about a distant ancient world.

    Another passage I thought would surely be addressed is the vocab of 2 Pet 3 when a range of vocab is put out about all this, and makes a distinction between the earth 'existing' and then this world 'being created', using different vocab. In addition, Peter quickly speaks of the previous world being destroyed, but means the created and defiled world before the flood. But saying that is a strong implication that something similar had already happened. Langford should have explained that 'F&V' means that a destructive judgement took place.

    (Out of the 500 accounts of some kind of major world deluge around the world, it is intriguing to notice how many think of the event as 'creation'--without reference to anything before. The ones that refer to something before are usually about giants and their mindless evil, the most specific being Naszca, Peru).
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Not at all. In English the word "one" can be an adjective or a pronoun.

    In Deuteronomy 6:4 "one" is an adjective modifying eternal being, but it does not specify the number of eternal beings nor does it specify which eternal being....
    Stop right here.
    If I say "one cow", how am I using the word "one"?
    Is there any question about how many cows there are?

    The word ECHAD means one. The other word you are hinting at means only. The words are used differently. Try substituting only for one in deuteronomy.

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    But God is one means God is unified, a unity.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    The word ECHAD means one.
    Yes, but an adjective modifies a noun. The noun is missing.

    You're guessing the noun would be a person, but that's not what is said.

    I can refer to one cow but that does not exclude other cows. I could have picked one of many.

    The word "adon" can refer to any person of respect.

    "Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, 'After I have grown old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?'"

    My lord is a reference to Sarah's husband and is singular. The law required a woman to have only one husband.

    Here the word for lord is adon, which is singular.

    The plural for adon is adonaim. The term Adonai means my Adon.

    "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad." (Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB)

    Adonai for Israel refers to their Adon, their Lord, their King.

    Israel's Adon is a King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Israel's Adon also has an Adon, the Most High, our Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Yes, but an adjective modifies a noun. The noun is missing.

    You're guessing the noun would be a person, but that's not what is said.

    I can refer to one cow but that does not exclude other cows. I could have picked one of many.

    The word "adon" can refer to any person of respect.

    "Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, 'After I have grown old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?'"

    My lord is a reference to Sarah's husband and is singular. The law required a woman to have only one husband.

    Here the word for lord is adon, which is singular.

    The plural for adon is adonaim. The term Adonai means my Adon.

    "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad." (Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB)

    Adonai for Israel refers to their Adon, their Lord, their King.

    Israel's Adon is a King of kings and Lord of lords.

    Israel's Adon also has an Adon, the Most High, our Father.
    You are saying that "one" is an adjective here without a noun, and therefore no longer means "one", but "one of many"?

    I am not sure what your point is about the term "adon". It's meaning is clear. God is out lord and king.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    I am not sure what your point is about the term "adon". It's meaning is clear. God is out lord and king.
    Adon is singular, adonai is plural

    In Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB Adonai is used instead of the singular Adon.

    "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad.

    Eloheinu is a masculine noun and is one of the plural Adonai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie View Post
    Adon is singular, adonai is plural

    In Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB Adonai is used instead of the singular Adon.

    "Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad.

    Eloheinu is a masculine noun and is one of the plural Adonai.
    Since "adonai" doesn't actually appear in the verse, I am not sure what this detailed grammatical discussion is supposed to prove.

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    "For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name, and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, He is called the God of the whole earth." (Isaiah 54:5)

    The people of Jacob had a Father and a Husband.

    Their Father was the Most High and their Husband was Christ.

    The death of Christ ended his marriage to Israel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chair View Post
    Since "adonai" doesn't actually appear in the verse, I am not sure what this detailed grammatical discussion is supposed to prove.
    The quote in which Adonai appears is the Complete Jewish Bible.

    If you're not familiar with the term the KJV uses LORD.

    Adonai is the plural for Adon and means my Lord.

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