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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Because we all know astronomy didn't exist until the "Big Bang Theory."

    Because we all know that radioactive dating "works" as long as you use circular reasoning and start with the assumption that the earth is absurdly old already.

    Because we all know that the theory of Evolution is what makes modern medicine "work" (even when it doesn't.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    When did stars start to go supernova? How did the light from exploded stars reach us in just 6,000 years? The Milky Way alone is about 100,000 light years across. That is a long time for light to reach us here on earth. If you say that God created supernovas, that is like saying that God created trees with tree rings, and that also would be "appearance of age."



    From anyone's perspective, Adam was created as a fully grown man of a certain age, hence his appearance of age. Not actual age, but appearance of age. Eve as well.
    So the assumption is that God is able to create a supernova without its light, but he is not able to create a supernova that is already lit?

    I'm pretty sure that Genesis says that God said "Let there be light" and he didn't have to first create a star to make that light then wait for it to travel huge distances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name
    When did stars start to go supernova?
    Super Novas are just one of many evidences that we live in a yoing universe as in the Biblical account. If we lived in an old universe we should see several thousand exploded star remnants about 300 light years in diameter. If we live in a young universe we wouldn't expect any.

    Which prediction is correct? The Biblical model of course! Astronomers who believe in the old earth model are understandably puźzled asking "Why have the large number of expected remnants not been detected?’ and these authors refer to ‘The mystery of the missing remnants" <Clark and Caswell, in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society 1976>.


    When did they go Super Nova? It depends on a couple things. For example scripture tells us that God spread, and is spreading the stars. How fast did God initially spread the stars? We don't know...but, we do know Adam could see the stars on his first day.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Super Novas are just one of many evidences that we live in a yoing universe as in the Biblical account.
    Yes. Of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    You are right there. The earth is at least 800,000 years old, by the counting of the annual layers in the ice.

    Here are eleven such annual layers from Greenland:



    Stuart
    Do you have any idea just how many "annual" layers of ice they had to dig through when they unearthed a WW2 aircraft that had been frozen over? Hundreds of "annual" rings.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/04/us...feet-deep.html
    http://evolutionfacts.com/New-materi...zen_planes.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosenritter View Post
    Do you have any idea just how many "annual" layers of ice they had to dig through when they unearthed a WW2 aircraft that had been frozen over? Hundreds of "annual" rings.

    http://www.nytimes.com/1988/08/04/us...feet-deep.html
    http://evolutionfacts.com/New-materi...zen_planes.htm
    I did not see any discussion of "annual" layers in the NY Times article.
    evolutionfacts.com on the other hand is simply a creationist silly site. The "facts" it attempts to present are simply not "facts".

    The earth is billions of years old, the universe even more billions of years old. Yes, if your deity is as powerful as you claim he could have created everything in a week and made it look old just to confuse. But why? Why would a loving god do that?
    Sort of like if your parents said, "Please walk to the market, its only a 1/4 mile" when it was 10 miles away. Or, "Sure the ice is thick enough to skate on" but it was not. What's the point? Being able to have a godly laugh at humanity?

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  12. #82
    Silver Member JudgeRightly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    It was roughly 2000 years from creation to Abraham, 2000 years from him to Christ and 2000 years since.

    Millions of years could never happen for so many reasons including population, magnetic field and natural resources.
    Agreed.

    In the last 200 years the population has gone from 1 billion to 7 billion plus people which means that Jesus will be coming in the next 10 to 20 years because that kind of growth rate is unsustainable. Or at the very least global war over resources will break out.
    Unsustainable?

    Let me ask you something:

    Which regions/cities/countries tend to have a higher standard of living?

    A. Those with a high population density
    B. Those with a low population density

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I am trying to find out if those words could be plural: "Evening and Morning"

    Perhaps you could find out?


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...&strongs=h6153

    The Hebrew word for "evening" (H6153) occurs 136 times in 129 verses in the Old Testament.

    It means evening, night, or sunset.



    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...&strongs=h1242

    The Hebrew word for "morning" (H1242) occurs 205 times in 189 verses in the Old Testament.

    It means morning, break of day.
    Morning, being of end of night, of coming of daylight, of coming of sunrise, of beginning of day, and figuratively of bright joy after a night of distress.
    Break of day, being the morrow, next day, next morning.

    There is no evidence to suggest that the words mean anything other than the period prior to midnight and the period after midnight in Genesis 1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I am trying to find out if those words could be plural: "Evening and Morning"

    Perhaps you could find out?
    Also something to consider, to make a word plural in Hebrew, you add "-im." For example, "cherub" becomes "cherubim," "seraph" "seraphim," "nephil" "nephilim," "El" or "Eloah" and "Elohim."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Interesting, you use other myths to support your particular favorite mythical account.

    At the very least the universe appears to be 13+ billions of years old, despite your objection it appears to have developed naturally (yep I know, hard to believe, hard to understand---like health care---complicated).
    So you think it looks old?

    Tell me then, where are the Population III stars? They're supposed to be the oldest, yet we haven't found any at all.

    I think our universe looks very young, especially when you consider that galaxies that are 13 billion lightyears away look mature, where secular scientists said they would look infantile.

    http://kgov.com/evidence-against-the-big-bang
    http://kgov.com/big-bang-predictions
    http://kgov.com/fine-tuning-of-the-universe
    http://kgov.com/list-of-solar-system-formation-problems
    http://kgov.com/list-of-carbon-14-ev...it-shouldnt-be
    http://kgov.com/list-of-the-transien...e-solar-system

    And what is the exact temperature to keep whale sperm warm enough? Citation, please, thanks.
    And since you mentioned whales:
    http://kgov.com/list-of-whale-evolution-problems

    So to shrug off the question of whether your deity created it just a few thousand years ago in a manner that wound up looking old is to ignore a basic philosophical/theological question---Why? What's the point?
    I thought this thread was a discussion of the scientific evidence for the origins of the universe, as it pertains to Genesis 1, not the philosophical evidence...

    Let's stick to science, because you and yours, Jonahdog, never seem to want to discuss the science, you only want to discuss the philosophical matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    I did not see any discussion of "annual" layers in the NY Times article.
    evolutionfacts.com on the other hand is simply a creationist silly site. The "facts" it attempts to present are simply not "facts".

    The earth is billions of years old, the universe even more billions of years old. Yes, if your deity is as powerful as you claim he could have created everything in a week and made it look old just to confuse. But why? Why would a loving god do that?
    Sort of like if your parents said, "Please walk to the market, its only a 1/4 mile" when it was 10 miles away. Or, "Sure the ice is thick enough to skate on" but it was not. What's the point? Being able to have a godly laugh at humanity?
    You seem to have a lot of bitterness towards God your Creator. Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    I did not see any discussion of "annual" layers in the NY Times article.
    evolutionfacts.com on the other hand is simply a creationist silly site. The "facts" it attempts to present are simply not "facts".

    The earth is billions of years old, the universe even more billions of years old. Yes, if your deity is as powerful as you claim he could have created everything in a week and made it look old just to confuse. But why? Why would a loving god do that?
    Sort of like if your parents said, "Please walk to the market, its only a 1/4 mile" when it was 10 miles away. Or, "Sure the ice is thick enough to skate on" but it was not. What's the point? Being able to have a godly laugh at humanity?
    Your reading seems a bit shallow. You could do the calculations of inches per year and apply it to the plane, if you were inclined to invoke the brains that God gave you with some sixth grade mathematics. But perhaps I've misjudged you. Did you actually compare the numbers and do a division on paper or the like? Or are did you resort to "a creationist reported the evidence therefore he is lying!"

    The point being that those aren't annual rings. You're seeing rings and you're calling them annual because the Old Age people need to invent fake evidence for Old Earth. When the layers are compared with objects of known age that fake evidence is blown out of the water. Very bad science, making up evidence against the facts, that was...

    Just because it's laughable doesn't mean it's God's fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    If God created the earth and the universe with "the appearance of age", then what is the "apparent age" of the earth and the universe?
    To me. Creation inevitably involved the manipulation of time and space which goes beyond human understanding. Even today we are clueless about what time is conceptually. Our comprehension of time is based on our experience of how time progresses stably forward as we perceive. However this is not how time behaves under all circumstances. As Einstein once put, time is not even a stable physics unit, instead speed/velocity is.

    So the point is, in the lack of a better understanding of what space/time is, how God should tell us humans (Moses in specific as one of the ancient humans) literally what creation is. The Genesis account represents the best literal explanation made to humans (like Moses) under the circumstance that no humans can comprehend the process conceptually and correctly. As an indication, "God speaks things into existence" is used to explain how part of the creation process is achieved.

    That said, the scientists are left in the dark because their conclusions are drawn based on the assumption that no God exists. They have to assume that earth is in its current position (in terms of time-space) all the times from the beginning (with Big Bang marks the beginning).

    This assumption however may not be valid if God exists. God can create the earth in another space then plug it into its current position on day 4. It's more or less like when you are asked to fry eggs, you don't have to use one pan to fry all the eggs. You can use multiple pans to fry eggs when necessary. God doesn't need to create earth and our universe using the same time-space we expect.

    Similarly, dating methods work under the assumption that earth is in its current position (of time and space) all the times thus the radioactive materials are preserved in a way for us to use for timing purpose. However if God exists and ever moved earth out of its current position (of time and space) as a necessity at some point, then radioactive materials can thus be 'leaked' and beyond our comprehension and calculation.
    Last edited by Hawkins; August 11th, 2017 at 11:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    Agreed.



    Unsustainable?

    Let me ask you something:

    Which regions/cities/countries tend to have a higher standard of living?

    A. Those with a high population density
    B. Those with a low population density
    Four Riders of the Apocalypse - False Christ's appear then War then Famine then Pestilence and Plague

    Are you up to date on your rapture insurance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudgeRightly View Post


    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...&strongs=h6153

    The Hebrew word for "evening" (H6153) occurs 136 times in 129 verses in the Old Testament.

    It means evening, night, or sunset.



    https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...&strongs=h1242

    The Hebrew word for "morning" (H1242) occurs 205 times in 189 verses in the Old Testament.

    It means morning, break of day.
    Morning, being of end of night, of coming of daylight, of coming of sunrise, of beginning of day, and figuratively of bright joy after a night of distress.
    Break of day, being the morrow, next day, next morning.

    There is no evidence to suggest that the words mean anything other than the period prior to midnight and the period after midnight in Genesis 1.
    Some of those words are also translated as a plural.

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