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Thread: Pope Enthroned Between Cherubim, Showing himself that he is God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    The seven hills of Rome.

    This is the list of hills:

    Aventinus (Aventine)
    Caelius (Caelian)
    Capitolium (Capitoline)
    Esquiliae (Esquiline)
    Palatium (Palatine)
    Quirinalis (Quirinal)
    Viminalis (Viminal)


    The seven hills are:

    Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
    Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
    Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
    Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
    Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
    Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
    Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)
    Since Rome existed when John wrote Revelation, why not call it "Rome," rather than "Babylon?" Simple thinking can cure a lot of this unbased conspiracy.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Since Rome existed when John wrote Revelation, why not call it "Rome," rather than "Babylon?" Simple thinking can cure a lot of this unbased conspiracy.


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    If parables were not used, then the bible would have been completely destroyed. Most people do not know that the bible is speaking about them. Only those who are truly spiritually discerned are able to figure it out.

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    From your Thread "Gay Orgy at Vatican," where I demonstrated that the claim "the pope believes he is God," as a falsehood.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Let us work through those things quoted above.

    “Don’t go to God for forgiveness of sins, come to me” Source: “The Pope’s Apology” by Professor Author Noble: This is a phrasing by Professor Noble. This is not a quote from any priest or pope. This is a quote that the Noble Professor is attributing to Popes. As stated before, Noble is a devout anti-Catholic, and prone to a history of revision and false applications. Therefore, this quote, and its source, are not reputable.

    We Catholics are the "Mother" Church and Our Protestant Daughters Are Harlots - (Rev. 17:5): This is once again, a quote being projected onto Catholics. This is not a direct quote from any biblical source, nor true Catholic Source. The Catechism of the Catholic Church often refers to Protestants as "our brothers and sisters in Christ." This quote is pure conjecture, and false. It also makes no real sense when compared alongside Catholic teachings.

    "The Pope is God On This Earth:" This is a false statement. Obviously, the Pope is not God in any capacity. There is no teaching of Catholic origin that makes this declaration. Once again, we see a false attribution and projection, lacking of merit or evidence. The Pope is a representative of God, but by no means God himself.

    "The Pope is Immortal:" This has never been declared by Catholicism. And is clearly a false (and silly) attribution. Especially since there are only two popes even alive today. This is quickly dismissed due to lack of logic and any evidence to the contrary.

    "The Pope is Infallible:" This one is a little tricky. This is a "true" statement and attribution, but not in the scope and sense that Protestants declare and believe. The Pope is only "infallible" when making declarations or decrees on moral or dogmatic truths. Which, as I stated before, has never contradicted what is found in Scripture. As stated before, that is quite considerable, given the nuts that have been pope. These statements are made rarely, and are usually just re-declarations of things already taught. Examples of this can easily be found and traced throughout history. In any circumstance outside of making such decrees and declarations, the pope is not considered, by the Catholic Church, infallible. He never has been considered infallible outside of such circumstances. Like ever. So any claim to the contrary is false.

    "The Pope's Crown Bears This Inscription - VICarIVs fILII DeI=666:" This is just preposterous and borderline insane. This is really people seeing the devil everywhere. I could say, "don't read the Bible! It talks about Satan! How evil!" My claim is true, it talks about Satan, but not in the way I mean. I can string letters together throughout the Bible and create the phrase "Worship and Hail Satan." But this is the work of a twisted mind, no? Both of those examples bear as much weight and merit as this silly claim. This is an active effort at "seeing the devil in the details."

    " The Pope Has All Power in Heaven and Earth and Can Change Divine Laws:" Another false attribute and projection. (I think from now on, I may just say this phrase, as it seems to be a pattern). The Pope clearly does not have this power, because if he did, those corrupt popes could have sent people to hell, sent plagues, etc. Once again, no merit, evidence, or logic.

    "The Pope Can Change, Add to, or Take Away From,
    and His Word is Greater than the Holy Scriptures
    :" Once again, false. There is no claim of this, and this is actually contrary to what is taught by Catholicism. No merit, evidence, or logic. Another false projection.

    "All People Must Be Subject to the Authority of the Pope
    in Order to be in God's True Church
    All Who Separate From the Control of the Pope are Without Christ
    All People Must Be Subject to the Authority of the Pope in Order to be Saved
    :" This is taken out of context from older Catholic documents. While these claims were put forth, by various religious outraged at the dissension from the Church, they have since been amended (for example, it is not taught that only those under Catholicism are saved). Such claims were not "ex cathedra," (which is the term applied to when a Pope makes a declaration of moral or dogmatic truth), but the rants and beliefs of a few. So, while "true," it is grossly taken out of context.

    "Even if the Pope is in Error or Were Evil,
    He Still Holds Power Over All Christ's Faithful:"
    I give credit where it is due, your quotes did improve to at least minimal truths. While this statement is true, it has to be taken in context with "ex cathedra." Taken, with the full knowledge, that the Pope has never, and will never, make evil or erroneous declarations of moral or dogmatic truths. Obviously, there have been Popes in error and evil. There has never been any denial of that on our part. In fact, it is an excellent point that we, Catholics, always utilize. Paul was once evil. He may have not gotten along with other apostles, after being named Paul. But his declarations were always truthful, no? So, this attribution must be taken in context, and with full knowledge of what it means.

    "The Pope is Christ's Replacement (Vicar or Vicegerent) on Earth:" This is a false wording. The Pope is the "Vicar of Christ," but that does not mean "replacement." "Vicar" has never been defined, connotative or denotative, as such. This is a perfect example of utilizing a small truth and perverting it to form a false "fact." This is classic alteration/false attribution.

    "Supreme Papal Authority Comes From the Law of the Caesars
    September 13, 2013 at 3:24pm • Like
    :" This is akin to the claim that Christianity comes from Sumerian stories. The whole "Son Saving Humanity" being linked to Sumerian worship of the "Sun saving man from darkness." It is just flimsy, without evidence, merit, or logic (addressing the claim about Sumerians). Likewise, the claim that Popes get the idea of Papal Authority from Roman Caesars is just ludicrous. There has never been any evidence of this. And the claim of authority actually originates from Scripture. If you want to make the claim that Scripture, likewise, Christ's commands and Word, bore no authority, then I can see this argument being a "logical" one, since there is no belief or authority to begin with. However, if the Bible has authority, then any doctrine arising from true rendering of Scripture, evidence by God's Eternal Word, is valid and truth. So, if you believe the Scriptures, then this argument is contradictory to Scripture. But, if you don't give authority to Christ's Word, then your point can remain valid, but that would lead to a different conversation all together.

    In closing, most of your points were completely false. The few that were slightly true, were taken out of context completely, or had false projections placed on them, leading to false conclusions. I would always encourage a thorough, unbiased research. And subsequently, a brief review of any author of any research or claim always gives plenty of insight into the integrity of their published material/claims.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    From your Thread "Gay Orgy at Vatican," where I demonstrated that the claim "the pope believes he is God," as a falsehood.

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    Everyone believe what they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    If parables were not used, then the bible would have been completely destroyed. Most people do not know that the bible is speaking about them. Only those who are truly spiritually discerned are able to figure it out.
    So, God would have let the written word be demolished and destroyed? Thus, the use of parables.

    There is no reason not rationale behind this claim.

    If the book of Revelation was "apocalyptic," then why hide reality behind parables? It makes no sense. John called out every other nation, which existed in his day. Why disguise Rome as "Babylon?" Once again, there is no logic there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Everyone believe what they want.
    Then why post things that are riddled with falsehoods? That seems more akin to being a false prophet.

    Believing, as a matter of opinion, can only be honest if the subject is subjective. For objective subjects, aka: facts, a disagreement is choosing ignorance or falsehood in light of truth.

    This is not a matter of "belief." Rather, it is a matter of fact and falsehoods.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Had to go make a different thread because you were getting proven wrong? Typical signs of theological ignorance and stroking ego.


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    I think I know what the problem is. I am talking about history, and you are thinking about present day Catholics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Then why post things that are riddled with falsehoods? That seems more akin to being a false prophet.

    Believing, as a matter of opinion, can only be honest if the subject is subjective. For objective subjects, aka: facts, a disagreement is choosing ignorance or falsehood in light of truth.

    This is not a matter of "belief." Rather, it is a matter of fact and falsehoods.


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    Parables Proverbs Riddles Dreams Visions.

    Do you understand what these word below marked in red mean? Do you take the time to understand the verses? The bible often is written in a parable without giving any indication that it is parabolic.

    Numbers 12:8
    With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

    Psalm 49:4
    I will turn my ear to a proverb; with the harp I will expound my riddle:

    Proverbs 1:6
    for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.

    Daniel 5:12
    He did this because Daniel, whom the king called Belteshazzar, was found to have a keen mind and knowledge and understanding, and also the ability to interpret dreams, explain riddles and solve difficult problems. Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means.”

    Ezekiel 20:49
    Then I said, “Sovereign LORD, they are saying of me, ‘Isn’t he just telling parables?’”

    Hosea 12:10
    I spoke to the prophets, gave them many visions and told parables through them.”

    Matthew 13:3
    Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.

    Matthew 13:10
    The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

    Matthew 13:13
    This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

    Matthew 13:34
    Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.

    Matthew 13:35
    So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

    Psalm 78
    2 I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, things from of old...

    Revelation 1:19-20.
    “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the Seven Stars that you saw in my right hand and of the Seven Golden Lampsticks is this: The Seven Stars are the messengers of the Seven Congregations, and the Seven Lampsticks are the Seven Congregations.

    Truth is made known by reason of the facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I think I know what the problem is. I am talking about history, and you are thinking about present day Catholics.
    I think you have an alternate view of history. Especially since Catholic Doctrine has not changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    I think you have an alternate view of history. Especially since Catholic Doctrine has not changed.
    I posted photographs and documents.

    Matthew 13:14
    You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    I posted photographs and documents.

    Matthew 13:14
    You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
    Which post? I will gladly review them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Matthew 13:14
    You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
    Is this the reason you began an alternate thread on a topic you have already been proven wrong about?


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Which post? I will gladly review them.


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    Click on the links of post 1, 3, 4, and 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Click on the links of post 1, 3, 4, and 6.
    I shall review them, then give my reply tomorrow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    Click on the links of post 1, 3, 4, and 6.
    That was a lot of reading. It was honestly worthy of publication. A well crafted, although loosely stringed together, piece of fiction.

    The whole inscription meaning "666" is just so flimsy and easily debunked. I could use the same crazy logic to show the Scriptures are evil. It lacks actual proof, and relies on smoke and mirrors to hide the lack of actual evidence.

    The Angels on the sides of the seat are not cherubim. They are just Angels. Any brief history lesson, including looking up the plans for its set up, show that they are merely Angels. Cherubs, if you ever researched it, are what was on each side of the Ark, as well as Tabernacles. They look much different.

    Really, simple research, and some basic logic, debunk these anti-Catholic conspiracy theories.


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