User Tag List

Page 11 of 18 FirstFirst ... 891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 264

Thread: False ‘Message Bible’ Creator Changes Mind on Homosexuality, Says He Would Officiate

  1. #151
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    16,831
    Thanks
    648
    Thanked 8,745 Times in 5,956 Posts

    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147789
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Nick M For Your Post:

    Tambora (July 18th, 2017)

  3. #152
    Over 4000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,668
    Thanks
    43
    Thanked 341 Times in 283 Posts

    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    84530
    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I think GOD's grace is sufficient, and not determined by the behavior of mankind.
    Free and not earned.

    For one to believe this, they would have to concede that, yes, an openly practicing homo can indeed be just as saved as I am (who still sins in the flesh).
    Matthew 7:23
    Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

  4. #153
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,484
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32429
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Of course not. Why would those politically opposed to him bring it up? They would not. You have no point to be made here.
    Why did the Romans record the opinions of the Jews / early christians at all then?

    Except for the fact that we do. Like Pilate, Herod, Augustus, the documentation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, corroborating the testimony, and in hell Jewish heathen, Josephus, Agrippa. all having interaction. It would be very easy to disprove basic stuff, like arriving at the tomb, where the angel was, where the body was previously laying, the tomb that was new, carved from the rock...etc etc.
    You are describing a history of ancient Palestine, and the point is that like any work of historical fiction, there are real places and people in the backdrop, but the story set there is fictional.

    I'm always open to any actual evidence for the existence of Jesus, and I do believe there was such an historical person, but if you look into it you will find there really is little to nothing there to make the case. The two events that are generally agreed to have taken place are the baptism of Jesus and the crucifixion of Jesus. Really, nothing else can be relied upon by the standards of historical investigation.

    You would have provided an example.
    I'll repeat the two examples I already gave:

    * The Census of Quirinius took place in 6CE, 10 years after the death of Herod in 4BCE.
    * There was never a rule about having to relocate to ancestral lands to complete a Roman census.

    So either Jesus was born at a time when there was no census, or during the census at a time when there was no Herod to slaughter male infants.

    There is a great deal on the internet about the scholarship of the historicity of Jesus, and it is a very interesting example of how we have changed in our expectations of what can be said to be 'true' about the past. Did Homer exist? Probably not. What about Socrates? Maybe, but it's not likely the historical Socrates was anything like the Socrates of legend.

    Of course it is possible that the gospels are an accurate account. But we cannot know they are, and it is extremely unlikely that they are.

    Stuart

  5. #154
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,767
    Thanks
    25,324
    Thanked 17,625 Times in 11,133 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by deborah View Post
    People give labels . I was born in this place that people have decided to call England , they have put borders around it and made its own rules . So therefore people would label me as English . There are a lot of labels that we give each other , white , black , gay , saint , sinner . God doesn't see labels he sees us as individuals. You might be to narrow minded to k ow how to treat other brothers and sisters but God most certainly is not .


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    Jesus is narrowminded, like it or not.


    John 14:6

    6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

    Quite narrow and exclusive and removes all other "ways" and "gods"

    This too:

    Matthew 7:13-14
    13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

    Seems Jesus just told you how it is.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    Tambora (July 18th, 2017)

  7. #155
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,767
    Thanks
    25,324
    Thanked 17,625 Times in 11,133 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    I'd be interested to know from ToL contributors their experience of posting on 'atheist' forums, to find out which worldview is more likely to 'hand out bans'. I would have thought non-believers might be more tolerant of the expression of a wide range of views, but I suppose not necessarily.

    Stuart
    Atheists boards are more likely, after they whine on christian forums that they are treated like second class citizens, then they chomp at the bit to ban you outright on their boards. IIDB ended because of that very thing.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    Tambora (July 18th, 2017)

  9. #156
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The North & the West
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    666
    Thanked 874 Times in 729 Posts

    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    200350
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    I have a skeptics' dictionary. You won't like what it says in there about your fear, guilt, and inability to drop a belief that you know, deep down, is ridiculous.

    Were you thinking of some other dictionary?

    Stuart
    That is the best you've got.

    HE IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    487 . . . the Catholic faith . . . in Christ.

    "...things happen .. and you see the results in the fruits of the happening." Lahey

  10. #157
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,484
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32429
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    That is the best you've got.
    It's better than only having a platitude.

    Stuart

  11. #158
    Over 4000 post club Nihilo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The North & the West
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    666
    Thanked 874 Times in 729 Posts

    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    200350
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    It's better than only having a platitude.

    Stuart
    Best be double-checking that dictionary of yours then.

    He is risen.

    Not a platitude.

    HE IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    487 . . . the Catholic faith . . . in Christ.

    "...things happen .. and you see the results in the fruits of the happening." Lahey

  12. #159
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,153
    Thanks
    1,638
    Thanked 3,253 Times in 1,969 Posts

    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1628976
    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    More sick fruit from the Calvinist/Reformed false gospel where men and women are just globs of clay with no personal responsibility. This is the gospel that Truster espouses.
    I disagree with the pastor, Eugene Peterson, just like you. So did,does Truster. Why fight on an issue where he and I happen to agee with the Bible, the Lord Jesus Christ, and you? Can it actually be a "Calvinist" issue when a good many of us Calvinists disagree with Eugene Peterson?

    Romans 9 "globs of clay" John 15:5 "no personal responsibility"
    It 'seems' the Apostle Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:17) were Pavlovian/Skinnarian. I don't think you have to be Pavlovian or Skinnarian (B.F. Skinner) but I 'think' you have to keep verses in your bible and believe them. Proverbs 16:9

    You, yourself, said some pretty awful things to me. Do you take responsibility for those things adverse to the heart of the Lord Jesus Christ? It seems to me, you protest too much. If God doesn't make you a better person, this is all you will ever be, and according to your theology, all on your head. Would you be happy if He leaves you exactly as you are? No change? Don't knee-jerk so much. Don't cuss so much. It is you still stuck in your flesh. The 'GOOD' news about Skinnarian/Pavlovian psychology, is that it means theologically, as well, someone better than you and I, is working on us to get a 'different' response out of us. How much is God, "God" of your life? Imho, the whole way. That makes me Calvinist. Do you pray for Him to work in your life? Mellow you? Cause you love and grace? "IF" you pray for these things, no Calvinist, who is in Christ, does anything less and in those respects, you also are Calvinist by faith in Him and His ability to change you and me. It is Faith. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Calvinists do have a lot of redeemable qualities, even if we are wrong about some things, in your mind. This Calvinist isn't against you. I'm very much for you, and God working Sovereignly in your life. I pray that He changes you, even against your desire or helplessness contrary. Jeremiah 29:11
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    Angel4Truth (July 18th, 2017)

  14. #160
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,153
    Thanks
    1,638
    Thanked 3,253 Times in 1,969 Posts

    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    1628976
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
    I have a skeptics' dictionary. You won't like what it says in there about your fear, guilt, and inability to drop a belief that you know, deep down, is ridiculous.
    You went past 'skeptic' with that dictionary. Romans 1:19-22 It is intellectually counter-intuitive to assert what you just asserted. It is Certainly, by no means skepticism. Doubt is forgivable. Repression is something altogether different and a sin against your very own soul/self. You are 'harming' yourself by such a statement.

    I KNOW there is a God. You've never asked me why or how BECAUSE you don't want to know. That's not skepticism. Your dictionary is the dictionary of denial and repression my friend, and it will only hurt yourself. God is, in fact there. If you are ever interested, ask me how I know.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Lon For Your Post:

    Angel4Truth (July 18th, 2017)

  16. #161
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,767
    Thanks
    25,324
    Thanked 17,625 Times in 11,133 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    He retracted what he said about gay marriage:

    Actually, Eugene Peterson Does Not Support Same-Sex Marriage

    A day after a Religion News Service interview portrayed retired pastor and author Eugene Peterson as shifting to endorse same-sex marriage, the evangelical leader retracted his comment and upheld the traditional Christian stance instead.

    “To clarify, I affirm a biblical view of marriage: one man to one woman. I affirm a biblical view of everything,” he said in a statement Thursday afternoon.

    Peterson, best known for creating the paraphrased Bible translation The Message, also regrets the “confusion and bombast” in the fallout of his remarks, which were widely shared and commented on online yesterday.

    Peterson stated:

    Recently a reporter asked me whether my personal opinions about homosexuality and same-sex marriage have changed over the years. I presume I was asked this question because of my former career as a pastor in the Presbyterian Church (USA), which recently affirmed homosexuality and began allowing its clergy to perform same-sex weddings. Having retired from the pastorate more than 25 years ago, I acknowledged to the reporter that I “haven’t had a lot of experience with it.”

    To clarify, I affirm a biblical view of marriage: one man to one woman. I affirm a biblical view of everything.

    RNS columnist Jonathan Merritt had asked Peterson, “If you were pastoring today and a gay couple in your church who were Christians of good faith asked you to perform their same-sex wedding ceremony, is that something you would do?” Peterson had responded with one word: yes.

    The interview was published Wednesday under this headline: Best-selling author Eugene Peterson changes his mind on gay marriage.

    In his retraction, the 84-year-old said that in nearly three decades as a pastor and in the years since, “I’ve never performed a same-sex wedding. I’ve never been asked and, frankly, I hope I never am asked.

    “This reporter, however, asked a hypothetical question: if I were pastoring today and if a gay couple were Christians of good faith and if they asked me to perform their wedding ceremony—if, if, if. Pastors don’t have the luxury of indulging in hypotheticals,” said Peterson. “And to be honest, no is not a word I typically use.”

    Peterson went on to state that because of the biblical view of marriage, he would not marry a same-sex couple:

    When put on the spot by this particular interviewer, I said yes in the moment. But on further reflection and prayer, I would like to retract that. That’s not something I would do out of respect to the congregation, the larger church body, and the historic biblical Christian view and teaching on marriage. That said, I would still love such a couple as their pastor. They’d be welcome at my table, along with everybody else.

    A 2016 LifeWay Research survey found that only 1 in 10 Protestant pastors had been asked to officiate a same-sex wedding. Presbyterian pastors received the most requests, at 1 in 4, followed by Lutheran pastors at 1 in 5.



    While mainline pastors were predictably more likely to receive such requests than evangelical pastors (18% vs. 6%), older pastors had been asked more often than younger pastors: 14 percent of those 55 and older, compared to 7 percent of those 54 and younger.

    In a post about the retraction, Merritt explained that he asked Peterson about homosexuality after hearing privately that he affirmed same-sex relationships. Their conversation took place last week by phone and lasted about 30 minutes.

    “It is possible that Peterson felt he had been placed on the spot and offered an answer that doesn’t reflect his true conviction,” Merritt wrote. “But it is also important to note that in the week prior to the publication of his answers, there was no attempt to clarify or change his answer to these questions.”

    He dismissed claims that Peterson was too senile to respond accurately, and added that the author’s views on same-sex marriage “have no bearing on my respect for him or his ministry.”

    Merritt later posted links to comments made by Peterson at Western Seminary in 2014, where Peterson said he “started to change my mind” on the status quo of gays being “really bad.” He also says that he “helped several families accept their children as gay,” finding that “this can be a flourishing thing.”

    Peterson also addressed the observations he had shared with RNS about the gay congregants he had known and served over the years.

    “When I told this reporter that there are gay and lesbian people who ‘seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do,’ I meant it,” he stated. “But then again, the goodness of a spiritual life is functionally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

    “We are saved by faith through grace that operates independent of our resolve or our good behavior,” he stated. “It operates by the hand of a loving God who desires for us to live in grace and truth and who does not tire of turning us toward both grace and truth.”

    Peterson continued:

    There have been gay people in a variety of congregations, campuses, and communities where I have served. My responsibility to them was the work of a pastor—to visit them, to care for their souls, to pray for them, to preach the Scriptures for them. This work of pastoring is extremely and essentially local: Each pastor is responsible to a particular people, a specific congregation. We often lose sight of that in an atmosphere so clouded by controversy and cluttered with loud voices. The people of a congregation are not abstractions, they are people, and a pastor does a disservice to the people in his care when he indulges in treating them as abstractions.

    Following the RNS interview, Christians on both sides of the LGBT debate cited Peterson as one of the most high-profile evangelicals to publicly change his stance on sexuality.

    LifeWay Christian Stores had reached out to “confirm with Eugene Peterson or his representatives that his recent interview on same-sex marriage accurately reflects his views.” A spokesperson said that because of his retraction, they will continue to sell his books, which include dozens of versions of The Message as well as A Long Obedience in the Same Direction and The Pastor. The store stopped selling Jen Hatmaker’s books last year after she also affirmed same-sex marriage in an interview with Merritt.

    Peterson’s followup warned against pastors “getting clouded by controversy and cluttered with loud voices” rather than focusing on the specific needs of their congregations.

    “I regret the confusion and bombast that this interview has fostered,” he said. “It has never been my intention to participate in the kind of lightless heat that such abstract, hypothetical comments and conversations generate.”

    In the interview series with Merritt, Peterson also stated that he will no longer be writing, teaching, or speaking publicly. In his retraction, he reiterated his desire to avoid public statements and to restrict his communication to personal correspondence.
    I wonder if this new stance he has is sincere, or is in response to lifeways threat to stop selling his books and resources.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    shopkinslpskids (July 18th, 2017),Tambora (July 18th, 2017)

  18. #162
    I am Miss America because I say so, you must agree Angel4Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Somewhere between heaven and hell
    Posts
    16,767
    Thanks
    25,324
    Thanked 17,625 Times in 11,133 Posts

    Blog Entries
    52
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147720
    LifeWay Prepared to Stop Selling The Message Over Eugene Peterson’s LGBT Comments

    The Message Bible, The Pastor, and the rest of Eugene Peterson’s catalog may no longer be sold at America’s largest Christian retail chain due to the retired pastor’s revisited views on same-sex marriage.

    In an interview published Wednesday, Peterson told Religion News Service columnist Jonathan Merritt that the “debate about lesbians and gays might be over” and that he would perform a same-sex wedding ceremony if he were pastoring today.

    As Christians on both sides of the LGBT debate acknowledged Peterson as one of the most high-profile evangelicals to publicly change his stance on sexuality, LifeWay Christian Stores stated that if the popular author indeed supports same-sex marriage, its stores can no longer sell his books.

    “LifeWay only carries resources in our stores by authors who hold to the biblical view of marriage,” stated a spokesperson for the affiliate of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). “We are attempting to confirm with Eugene Peterson or his representatives that his recent interview on same-sex marriage accurately reflects his views. If he confirms he does not hold to a biblical view of marriage, LifeWay will no longer sell any resources by him, including The Message.”

    The LifeWay website currently lists 135 titles by Peterson, including dozens of versions of his Message Bible, his memoir The Pastor, and his popular book on discipleship and the Psalms, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction.

    The 84-year-old served for decades in the Presbyterian Church (USA), which now permits same-sex marriage and openly gay clergy. But Peterson has been widely read, celebrated, and respected among generations of evangelicals, including pastors.

    After Christian author Jen Hatmaker affirmed same-sex marriage last year, also in an interview with Merritt, LifeWay stopped carrying her books, citing “significant changes in her theology of human sexuality and the meaning and definition of marriage … which contradict LifeWay’s doctrinal guidelines.”

    As CT previously reported, LifeWay, which draws in 2.7 million customers a year, has chosen not to stock or to discontinue several prominent Christian authors, including Joel Osteen, William P. Young, and Joyce Meyer, due to its doctrinal standards. The chain has pulled titles from Mark Driscoll and books about heaven tourism. And despite remarks from Rachel Held Evans, it does not ban all books with the word vagina.

    When influential evangelicals change their beliefs—or, in a different context, betray them with ethical or moral failures—followers who disagree are left wondering how it affects their relationship with the leader’s past work.

    Will evangelicals who support traditional marriage still read The Message? Sure, some never got on board with Peterson’s paraphrase in the first place. But his evangelical fans will have to decide how much this shift impacts his overall teaching and body of work.

    “I love Eugene Peterson. He’s a pastoral hero of mine. I disagree with him on the issue. I grieve how he’s being slandered,” tweeted Rich Villodas, pastor of New Life Fellowship, a multiethnic evangelical congregation in New York.

    Jason Kovacs, pastor of care and counseling at the Austin Stone church, said he will continue to read Peterson, seeing his shift as a humble reminder that people inevitably change their minds for reasons good and bad.

    “I also take it as a sobering call to think seriously about how to hold onto orthodox biblical truth while care well for the souls of people in our churches and cities in this day and age,” he said. “We cannot afford to lose the kind of pastoral imagination and practice that Eugene Peterson has blessed us with.”

    Russell Moore, president of the SBC’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC), addressed Peterson’s legacy for The Gospel Coalition, likening his news to Wendell Berry’s shift on the same issue.

    Moore said that to avoid confusion, he probably wouldn’t give Peterson’s books to a new believer or invite him to speak at his church. Still, “I can’t un-highlight or un-flag my Peterson books,” he said. “I can’t erase from my mind all the things he has taught me.”

    When asked about his views on same-sex marriage and homosexuality, Peterson said, in part:

    I wouldn’t have said this 20 years ago, but now I know a lot of people who are gay and lesbian and they seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do. I think that kind of debate about lesbians and gays might be over. People who disapprove of it, they’ll probably just go to another church. So we’re in a transition and I think it’s a transition for the best, for the good. I don’t think it’s something that you can parade, but it’s not a right or wrong thing as far as I’m concerned.

    Some evangelical leaders stated they were not surprised by the news; others were sad and disappointed at his remarks.

    “How sad that a creative voice like Eugene Peterson would forsake the Scriptures and the Tradition that he so eloquently wrote of,” tweeted Andrew Walker, director of policy studies for the ERLC.

    In the interview series with Merritt, Peterson also stated that he will no longer be writing, teaching, or speaking publicly.
    And lifeways new stance after he retracted his gay marriage claim:

    Southern Baptist-Owned LifeWay Stores Won’t Pull ‘Message Bible’ After Author’s ‘Gay Marriage’ Retraction

    LifeWay Christian Stores, which is owned by the Southern Baptist Convention, says that it will not pull the “Message Bible” or any of Eugene Peterson’s other writings now that the author has retracted his initial statements about same-sex “marriage.”

    “Based upon Eugene Peterson’s retraction, we will continue to sell his resources,” Carol Pipes, the director of corporate communications for LifeWay Christian Resources, told Christian News Network in a statement.

    The company had said last week that if Peterson indeeds supports homosexual “marriage,” as he seemingly indicated in his recent interview with Religion News Service, it would pull his products.

    “LifeWay only carries resources in our stores by authors who hold to the biblical view of marriage,” it advised. “We are attempting to confirm with Eugene Peterson or his representatives that his recent interview on same-sex marriage accurately reflects his views. If he confirms he does not hold to a biblical view of marriage, LifeWay will no longer sell any resources by him, including The Message.”

    LifeWay had pulled Jen Hatmaker’s books after she came out in support of same-sex nuptials last year.

    As previously reported, on Wednesday, Religion News Service released an article entitled “Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage.”

    “I wouldn’t have said this 20 years ago, but now I know a lot of people who are gay and lesbian and they seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do. I think that kind of debate about lesbians and gays might be over,” he told reporter Jonathan Merritt.

    Peterson, who led Christ Our King Presbyterian Church in Maryland for nearly 30 years before his retirement in 1991, explained that he never made “a big deal” about homosexuality in his congregation, and that he was pleased at how his members never questioned the allowance of an openly homosexual man to serve as music director.

    The man had applied for the position as the former worship leader left her post at the same time Peterson retired.

    “When he found out about the opening, he showed up in church one day and stood up and said, ‘I’d like to apply for the job of music director here, and I’m gay,’” Peterson recalled. “We didn’t have any gay people in the whole congregation. Well, some of them weren’t openly gay. But I was so pleased with the congregation. Nobody made any questions about it. And he was a really good musician.”

    He said that he thinks that the Church is in a “transition for the best” on the issue, and doesn’t see it as a matter of right and wrong.

    “People who disapprove of it, they’ll probably just go to another church,” Peterson stated. “So we’re in a transition and I think it’s a transition for the best, for the good. I don’t think it’s something that you can parade, but it’s not a right or wrong thing as far as I’m concerned.”

    When asked if he would be willing to officiate a same-sex ceremony for “Christians of good faith” if he were pastoring today, Peterson replied in the affirmative.

    However, the following day after the interview was published, Peterson, 84, walked back his answer, remarking that he had been put on the spot with a hypothetical question.

    “To clarify, I affirm a biblical view of marriage: one man to one woman. I affirm a biblical view of everything,” he said in a statement. “I’ve never performed a same-sex wedding. I’ve never been asked and, frankly, I hope I never am asked.”

    “This reporter, however, asked a hypothetical question: if I were pastoring today and if a gay couple were Christians of good faith and if they asked me to perform their wedding ceremony—if, if, if. Pastors don’t have the luxury of indulging in hypotheticals,” Peterson explained. “And to be honest, no is not a word I typically use.”

    He acknowledged that he did respond yes (that he would officiate a same-sex ceremony) during the interview, but said he only did so “in the moment” and felt the need to retract his answer upon praying about the matter.

    “When put on the spot by this particular interviewer, I said yes in the moment. But on further reflection and prayer, I would like to retract that,” Peterson said. “That’s not something I would do out of respect to the congregation, the larger church body, and the historic biblical Christian view and teaching on marriage. That said, I would still love such a couple as their pastor. They’d be welcome at my table, along with everybody else.”

    The former author and speaker also softened his remark that homosexuals “seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do.”

    “When I told this reporter that there are gay and lesbian people who ‘seem to have as good a spiritual life as I do,’ I meant it. But then again, the goodness of a spiritual life is functionally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things,” Peterson stated.

    “We are saved by faith through grace that operates independent of our resolve or our good behavior. It operates by the hand of a loving God who desires for us to live in grace and truth and who does not tire of turning us toward both grace and truth,” he said.

    Peterson outlined that there have been homosexuals in the various venues where he has served and noted that his “responsibility to them was the work of a pastor—to visit them, to care for their souls, to pray for them, to preach the Scriptures for them.”

    He said that he regretted the problems caused by the matter, pointing again to the question being hypothetical.

    “I regret the confusion and bombast that this interview has fostered,” Peterson stated. “It has never been my intention to participate in the kind of lightless heat that such abstract, hypothetical comments and conversations generate.”

    As previously reported, Peterson’s “Message Bible” does not specifically mention homosexuality, but instead reads as its paraphrase for 1 Corinthians 6:9, “Unjust people who don’t care about God will not be joining in His kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don’t qualify as citizens in God’s kingdom.”
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson
    Proverbs 3:5-8

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Angel4Truth For Your Post:

    shopkinslpskids (July 18th, 2017),Tambora (July 18th, 2017)

  20. #163
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,484
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32429
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    You went past 'skeptic' with that dictionary. Romans 1:19-22 It is intellectually counter-intuitive to assert what you just asserted. It is Certainly, by no means skepticism. Doubt is forgivable. Repression is something altogether different and a sin against your very own soul/self. You are 'harming' yourself by such a statement.

    I KNOW there is a God. You've never asked me why or how BECAUSE you don't want to know. That's not skepticism. Your dictionary is the dictionary of denial and repression my friend, and it will only hurt yourself. God is, in fact there. If you are ever interested, ask me how I know.
    I think if you reflect on your answer, it is one that betrays fear, possibly guilt, and a major dose of knowing that these beliefs really are ridiculous.

    Of course that part is important, isn't it. The meme, of whatever variety, requires a strong commitment and has a brilliant way of hijacking the human brain: it makes you commit to concepts that are really absurd because the more absurd the idea you have committed to, the less likely you are to backtrack and risk that high-stakes investment.

    The 'you are harming yourself' statement is a classic strategy, painting yourself as being a bit hurt that I would question your concern for my well-being.

    You do also try throwing the vitriol of Saul of Tarsus at me, which is a mixed strategy. It might be better to stick to either threats or pathos, but not both in the same post.


    Stuart

  21. #164
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,484
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32429
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Best be double-checking that dictionary of yours then.

    He is risen.

    Not a platitude.

    Your strategy is much better than Lon's (sorry Lon, but it is). Just stick with the same platitude and repeat it until the person at whom it is aimed starts to double-guess and wonder if actually there might be something in it.

    Of course there isn't. If you mean to claim that ancient Jews that were successfully executed by the Romans can get up and walk, then your belief of that is a major achievement by the meme that has hijacked your mind. How do you get out of that one? It would be a significant volte-face, as they say en France.

    Not sure what to suggest. Maybe just honesty with those who might have also committed to the idea. Just say, you know, had a rethink and clearly dead Jews don't just up and walk. You might lose some friends, or they might just say, yeah I was wondering about that too.

    Stuart

  22. #165
    Over 1000 post club
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,484
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    32429
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel4Truth View Post
    Atheists boards are more likely, after they whine on christian forums that they are treated like second class citizens, then they chomp at the bit to ban you outright on their boards. IIDB ended because of that very thing.
    That's interesting. I posted on an atheist forum many years ago (can't remember the name of it now) and they didn't look like they were banning anyone. I also posted on a christian forum at the same time, and they only seemed to ban christians, never the resident atheists!

    Stuart

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us