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Thread: Justification by Faith !

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    TOL Legend beloved57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    You are utilizing the blue letter bible's interpretation, rather than simply reading what is written. The Blue Letter is not the authority on the Bible, is it? Yet, it is being treated like it is. (which is hypocritical when people who accuse Catholicism of this very same thing)

    Furthermore, nowhere in Paul's letter to the Romans, is "faith alone" found. Nowhere in the Bible does the phrase "faith alone" appear, except in James, where it says "not by faith alone." To imply that "faith alone" is biblical is simply promoting falsehood.

    Despite all this, "faith" is a grace we receive. But accepting that faith is a human act. I can impart gifts all day long; if you refuse them, then you are acting on your own free will. Likewise, God can give us gifts, and we as humans, in our free will, can reject those gifts. Is it sinful to do so? Obviously. Since God has deemed it good to impart these things, who are we to refuse? But the fact, supported by the Scriptures, is that man freely accepts or rejects God.
    Invalid and evasive comments conducive to rabbit trail. Not one scripture !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Faith-Works-Love (By Themselves they are only principles) But together they are righteousness.

    People are trying to make a conclusion out of pieces and parts. It cant be done. Faith alone won't get you to heaven. Works alone won't get you to heaven. Love alone won't get you to heaven. That is the only conclusion.

    XXX If all you have to present to God is faith, YOU ARE NOTHING.
    1 Cor 13:1-2

    1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
    2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
    James 2:14
    14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
    James 2:17-18
    17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
    18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    James 2:24
    24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
    James 2:26
    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    Rom 16:26
    26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
    (NKJ)

    XXX You are saved by grace through faith. But that is NOT SALVATION. Faith only works through love.

    Eph 2:8
    8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    (NKJ)


    Luke 6:32-33
    32 "But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
    33 "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
    (NKJ)

    xxx Some stand on faith and some stand on works and some stand on love. They are all principles, they have to be together. So many on here are argueing just one point or part of a whole. You need to understand. Faith without works or love is dead. Works without faith or love is vanity. Love without faith or works is useless. Love is NOT AN EMOTION. Love is an action.

    So many are running on blind faith. They dont even know what faith is. In reality their useing trust as faith. Their different. Your faith should be in what is written, all of it. But faith alone will NOT get you to heaven. Works alone will NOT get you to heaven. Love alone will not get you to heaven. What you need is the true faith in the Word of God. If you have the true faith in the Word of God you would try your best to do the works that are in the Word. Now love is NOT a feeling but an action. And the only way to learn what Godly love is would be to do the works. That is how you learn what love is by trying to do the works. In the Word that you have put your faith in.


    Rom 5:1-4
    1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
    2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
    4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
    Eph 2:18-20
    18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
    19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
    20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone,
    Eph 3:12
    12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
    (NKJ)

    xxx Do you have real faith, or blind faith?? The true faith only works through love. True love is to suffer wrongfully. Your real faith only works when you are suffering wrongfully.

    Gal 5:6
    6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
    (NKJ)

    1 Tim 1:5-6
    5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith,
    6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk,
    (NKJ)

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    No the logical conclusion is that you don't see yourself as a sinner where your every thought, word and deed are corrupt. When the Holy Spirit convicts you of this and you humbly acknowledge it then you begin to make right decisions. Christians today are merely going thru the motions of their religion without even acknowledging their true condition. Jesus came into the world to save sinners and if you're not one then he can't help you.
    Your "logical conclusion" doesn't have anything to do with my statement.

    Also, I have acknowledged that I am a sinner. And with your claim that all I do is corrupt, then would acts of charity be corrupt? Would my thoughts of "wow, God is so great," be corrupt? This goes against the idea of God giving us the grace of conscience. Even atheists can do "good."

    Would you say the elect are without sin? For if they sin but once, they are sinners. But this flies against the "logic" of your doctrine of election. If a doctrine is illogical and contradictory, then it is a falsehood.


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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Invalid and evasive comments conducive to rabbit trail. Not one scripture !
    You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they do.

    And it is completely on topic. You just seem to dislike the facts put forth.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they do.

    And it is completely on topic. You just seem to dislike the facts put forth.


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    More worthless and invalid comments.

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    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

  6. #36
    Maranatha Nanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    God didn't damn people before the world began
    The scriptures prove your error.


    The goats were already condemned that's why they shall not believe on Christ.

    John 3:18, 36
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 8:24
    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 10:26
    But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    Mat. 25:34
    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand [Sheep], Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:41
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats], Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

    They, the goats, are cursed because their sins were not imputed to Christ, as these His Sheep were:

    Rom. 4:7-8
    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    The sins of Christ's Sheep were imputed to Him Is. 53:6 their Surety Heb. 7:22, and therefore abjured Righteous by Christ's Blood according to God's Law and Justice from everlasting Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:20; Rom. 5:9.
    My soul thirsts for God, the God Who Lives Forever:
    when shall I be brought in to see His Face? -Psalm 42:2

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    Over 4000 post club Epoisses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    Your "logical conclusion" doesn't have anything to do with my statement.

    Also, I have acknowledged that I am a sinner. And with your claim that all I do is corrupt, then would acts of charity be corrupt? Would my thoughts of "wow, God is so great," be corrupt? This goes against the idea of God giving us the grace of conscience. Even atheists can do "good."

    Would you say the elect are without sin? For if they sin but once, they are sinners. But this flies against the "logic" of your doctrine of election. If a doctrine is illogical and contradictory, then it is a falsehood.


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    Many acknowledge themselves as sinners intellectually but don't truly see themselves as such inwardly. Someone with real conviction of sin who has come to repentance and conversion doesn't speak the way you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    The scriptures prove your error.


    The goats were already condemned that's why they shall not believe on Christ.

    John 3:18, 36
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 8:24
    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 10:26
    But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    Mat. 25:34
    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand [Sheep], Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:41
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats], Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

    They, the goats, are cursed because their sins were not imputed to Christ, as these His Sheep were:

    Rom. 4:7-8
    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    The sins of Christ's Sheep were imputed to Him Is. 53:6 their Surety Heb. 7:22, and therefore abjured Righteous by Christ's Blood according to God's Law and Justice from everlasting Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:20; Rom. 5:9.
    Those are verses that speak of faith or non-faith in the experience of life not before the world began! You are so wedded to your delusions that you can't even read properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epoisses View Post
    Many acknowledge themselves as sinners intellectually but don't truly see themselves as such inwardly. Someone with real conviction of sin who has come to repentance and conversion doesn't speak the way you do.
    They don't speak logically and sincerely? That doesn't sound like conversion.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nanja View Post
    The scriptures prove your error.


    The goats were already condemned that's why they shall not believe on Christ.

    John 3:18, 36
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    John 8:24
    I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 10:26
    But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    Mat. 25:34
    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand [Sheep], Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    Mat 25:41
    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand [goats], Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

    They, the goats, are cursed because their sins were not imputed to Christ, as these His Sheep were:

    Rom. 4:7-8
    7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


    The sins of Christ's Sheep were imputed to Him Is. 53:6 their Surety Heb. 7:22, and therefore abjured Righteous by Christ's Blood according to God's Law and Justice from everlasting Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:20; Rom. 5:9.
    God made wicked men for the day of evil. Prov 16:4

    The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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  13. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    God made wicked men for the day of evil. Prov 16:4

    The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
    You are totally right, and I appreciate that you stand up for Biblical truths. I just wanted to clarify that while God created all things, he did not create evil. RC Sproul has a great video explaining how evil is "nothing" since it has no being. Therefore, it can't be considered a "thing."
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir6pKEV0RQ


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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter's Clay View Post
    You are totally right, and I appreciate that you stand up for Biblical truths. I just wanted to clarify that while God created all things, he did not create evil. RC Sproul has a great video explaining how evil is "nothing" since it has no being. Therefore, it can't be considered a "thing."
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ir6pKEV0RQ


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    This thread is on Justification by Faith.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    This thread is on Justification by Faith.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Sorry


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  16. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter's Clay View Post
    Sorry


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    No harm done. Are you interested in discussing the OP ?
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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  18. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    No harm done. Are you interested in discussing the OP ?
    I'll be glad to discuss the topic at hand. While I think we agree, I'll just add to your OP by bringing up John 3. Notice in this chapter, a person is born again before "believe" is ever mentioned. Furthermore, "born again" is compared to the wind. How is this relevant? We don't have control over the wind anymore than we have control over our physical or spiritual birth. While Arminian doctrine proposes that faith is prerequisite for salvation, I cannot find evidence of an unregenerate man believing in God before being born again. Furthermore, I don't see how that is logically possible as the natural man is dead in trespasses and sin. Therefore, belief has to justify one's salvation instead of belief being a condition for salvation.


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