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Thread: can ya help a brother out

  1. #61
    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    No, at Acts 2 no one was baptized into the Body of Christ. I do not think that the Body of Christ began on the day of Pentecost. And I do not think that Paul was the first person who was baptized into the Body of Christ (Ro.16:7).
    Okay, in regards to whether Paul was the first person in the body of Christ....Paul talks about the "churches of Judea being "in Christ". Surely entire churches are not in the body of Christ in the same way we enter into the body on an individual basis. This has to relate to the same early church from Acts 2, don't you think?

    Gal. 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

    I'm not ignoring the rest of your post, but I think it's important to address the differences between the early church and the "body of Christ". In fact, I'm wondering if it isn't closer to John 15, as far as being in Him. Perhaps being related to the vine.

    John 15:3-4 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
    4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    Now that's a good way to ask it. If you have some saved but not in the boc, then what was the purpose of creating the boc? I've heard tales of the boc being created to make Jews jealous. I have difficulty finding any jealous Jews.
    Follow the yellow brick road. And this road may make some MADists uneasy.

    Read these and the verses surrounding them.



    Romans 11 KJV
    (11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


    Romans 10 KJV
    (19) But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


    Moses saith


    Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV
    (21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    God Bless America

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  5. #63
    Over 1000 post club LoneStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Follow the yellow brick road. And this road may make some MADists uneasy.

    Read these and the verses surrounding them.



    Romans 11 KJV
    (11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


    Romans 10 KJV
    (19) But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


    Moses saith


    Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV
    (21) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
    With jealousy comes anger. I get that. I still don't get why Israel would be jealous and angry with the boc if their gospel saved them just as Paul's gospel saved the boc. I'll stew on it and see if anything clicks in my hard noggin.

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    Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law. When did Israel start thinking they could not be justified apart from the law? Were they supposed to think they now needed the law to be justified when the law was given to them? Did the requirement to be justified change when the law came?

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    TOL may be too advanced for me. Is there a internet site for MAD dummies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    TOL may be too advanced for me. Is there a internet site for MAD dummies?
    You are doing fine.
    You are asking the same type questions we have all asked at some point.
    It's the same type questions Paul anticipated ----- Is GOD through with Israel as a national people?
    And Paul gives us the direct answer to those type questions ----- no, GOD is not through with Israel as a national people.

    And no, there is no other site in the universe that is better than TOL.

    Keep this in mind ......
    You can know the correct time without knowing how the watch was built.
    GOD has already given us the correct answer ----- no, GOD is not through with Israel as a national people.
    We don't have to be given every detail of how that comes about to know it is correct, anymore than you have to know every detail of the 6 days of creation to know it is correct.

    God Bless America

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Personally, I don't think it's referring to actual "mansions", but places. For instance, the Apostles will sit on 12 thrones and rule over someone on earth...during the millenium (perhaps), while the members of the body will be in heaven.
    After believers will meet the Lord in the air it is said that they will be with Him forever:

    "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).

    Sometime after that happens the Lord Jesus will return to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom and will not those who were caught up with Him return to the earth with Him?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    TOL may be too advanced for me. Is there a internet site for MAD dummies?
    We're here at the right spot, fellow dummy.

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  17. #69
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law.
    The Israelites who lived under the law were saved in the same way that we are:

    "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).

    We can see proof of that when we see what the Lord Jesus said to a woman who lived under the law:

    "And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    Last night I was reading through Genesis of Abraham justified before the law came. The law came later. It is said that the law cannot annul that promise. I'm taking that to mean that the law could never annul that previous promise. Is that correct? If yes, then Israel was always able to be justified apart from the law. When did Israel start thinking they could not be justified apart from the law? Were they supposed to think they now needed the law to be justified when the law was given to them? Did the requirement to be justified change when the law came?
    I think God has always wanted people to trust in Him for their justification (through faith). But man is always seeking to be the center of attention. They start thinking they can do the very things they were never meant to do....walk apart from the Lord. Pride comes in, as it did with Israel. He gave them the law to show them they were unable to keep it on their own. They not only didn't see that, Moses added more and more and more for them to try to keep. Until man is literally brought to his knees, he refuses to accept he can only be justified before God through faith.

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    After believers will meet the Lord in the air it is said that they will be with Him forever:

    "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).

    Sometime after that happens the Lord Jesus will return to the earth to set up His earthly kingdom and will not those who were caught up with Him return to the earth with Him?
    Do you think that's during the thousand years or after the new heavens and earth?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStar View Post
    TOL may be too advanced for me. Is there a internet site for MAD dummies?
    Nah, you're doin' fine!
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Keep this in mind ......
    You can know the correct time without knowing how the watch was built.
    Yeah, but some of us is the types what wants to know how the watch was built!

    What-a-ya say t' that, Frankly?
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Do you think that's during the thousand years or after the new heavens and earth?
    I think that those who will be caught up with the Lord Jesus in the air will, at some point in time, return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His kingdom at the beginning of the 1000 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    I think that those who will be caught up with the Lord Jesus in the air will, at some point in time, return to the earth with the Lord Jesus when He sets up His kingdom at the beginning of the 1000 years.
    That's the position I've held, however, 'the earthly people' and 'the heavenly people' is a concept held by many in the dispensational stream.

    Hey, Jerry, got any comments on 'the great commission' given to the twelve with regard to water baptism?
    If that program had continued, would every person on earth who believed and repented been water baptized?
    Some say water baptism was connected to Israel as a kingdom of priests, but the nations wouldn't have been priests along with Israel would they? To enter the earthly kingdom, didn't all nations need to be water baptized? So, if we, the BOC, are coming back to earth for the Mill.. how come we don't need to be water baptized according to some dispensationalists?
    Thanks!
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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