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Thread: Romans 11:25-36 can't be erased (Israel's Vision will be restored)

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Yes, Tet.
    And I provided you with the scripture that showed it.
    You have a real hard time accepting scripture for what it actually says.
    You didn't answer the questions Tam.

    Here they are again:

    Are believers in the Body of Christ written in the book?

    Are people blotted out of the book that God has written?
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob,
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    Let's do this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

    It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

    However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

    Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

    Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

    All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

    Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Let's do this again.





    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting.
    Here it is again:

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


    What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Here it is again:

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


    What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?
    That is not the context of that verse.

    Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    Let's do this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

    It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

    However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

    Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

    Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

    All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

    Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

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    Exegete 9 in full please and let's see who Paul is calling Israel.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants?
    (Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    (Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
    Again,

    Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

    That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

    Spoiler
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Here it is again:

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


    What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?
    That is not the context of that verse.

    Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    Let's do this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

    It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

    However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

    Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

    Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

    All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

    Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    That verse does not reference Israel being replaced.
    The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

    In the New Covenant, those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

    Yet, you Darby Followers keep looking to the flesh.

    (2 Cor 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:...

    Why do you keep looking to the flesh, when Paul said not to?
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

    Please be honest with scripture friend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    (Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
    Again,

    Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

    That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

    Spoiler
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Here it is again:

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


    What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?
    That is not the context of that verse.

    Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    Let's do this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

    It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

    However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

    Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

    Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

    All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

    Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

    In the New Covenant, those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

    Yet, you Darby Followers keep looking to the flesh.

    (2 Cor 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:...

    Why do you keep looking to the flesh, when Paul said not to?
    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

    Please be honest with scripture friend.

    I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighCherub View Post
    How do you define either 'Zionist' or 'Anti Zionist'? The Christianity I believe in is not necessarily a 'replacement' so much as it is a 'continuation'- with many zealots of the Old falling out in rejection of the New. You see, Christ did not end Judaism, Christianity is rather Judaism altogether., it is God's will moving forward as it has throughout history. I don't think a lot of people fully recognize that very real perception of Christianity because they are too afraid to offend the Jews around them
    Your input is welcome here, but that sounds like a new OP. Could you please comment on Romans 11:25-36?

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    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.
    Paul is referring to Israel of the Old Covenant. Paul said they tried to pursue righteousness by works instead of faith.

    Please be honest with scripture friend.
    It always cracks me up when you Darby Followers accuse everyone who isn't a Darby Follower, as not being honest when they read scripture.

    I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?
    Like most scripture, Romans 9-11 is a death knell to dispensationalism.

    You have been brainwashed by Darby into believing that "the church" and "Israel" are two different groups of people post-cross.

    As long as you believe that rubbish, you will never understand scripture.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    (Rom 9:8) in other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
    Again,

    Could you please Exegete Romans 9 in full.

    That verse does not reference Israel being replaced. You are purposefully avoiding what Paul says before that and after it.

    Spoiler
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Here it is again:

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.


    What part of the bold/underline do you not understand?
    That is not the context of that verse.

    Again... could you please quote scripture properly?

    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    Er, no.

    (Rom 9:6) It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You Darby Followers like to go on and on about Paul's epistles. Yet, at times, it's as if you guys have never read them.
    Let's do this again.

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Israel is all those who come to Jesus by living faith no matter what nationality and ethnicity they are.

    It must have seemed as if all Jews were cut off, hardened, and blinded by God forever, and that an ethnicity of people was permanently disallowed from ever being saved again.

    However, Paul assures the listener that all Israel will be saved...that is, any potential believer from the nation of Israel are not being kept out by God and not allowed to be grafted back in to true Israel and thus being saved...that any Jew who would believe in Jesus---can do so, so that all Israel, true Israel will be saved; for leaving out a race of people would leave out those who make up together true Israel.

    Certainly, all Israel being saved is not about every single Jew is going to be saved.
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Abrahams descendants are no more Israel than Moses is the same person as Noah.

    Jacob's descendants are Israel's descendants. Jacob is Israel. Romans 9 specifies that Israel is rebellious and in present perilous times.

    All of Romans 9 says this. Are you now saying God called Abraham Israel and could you please produce that verse?
    Could you please show exact scripture that says Israel is not Jacobs descendants? It must say Israel is no longer Jacob's descendants.

    Scripture please? It must use the word Israel and redesignate it.

    Romans 9-11 designates Israel the descendants of Jacob, under Moses.

    So, what now?

    I'm waiting. To support your claim, you need to contextually exegete Romans 9-11.

    Can you do so and prove Israel is replaced?
    Quote Originally Posted by tetelestai View Post
    The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant.

    In the New Covenant, those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God.

    Yet, you Darby Followers keep looking to the flesh.

    (2 Cor 5:16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh:...

    Why do you keep looking to the flesh, when Paul said not to?
    Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

    32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Paul connects Israel of the flesh to Israel here. This leads to 11.

    Please be honest with scripture friend.

    I take it you cannot exegete 9-11 on your own and know that it will refute your claims if you do?

  15. #30
    LIFETIME MEMBER tetelestai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7Spirits View Post
    Again,
    Until you escape from dispensationalism, you will never understand.

    Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the Israel of God. They are the children of Abraham.

    The New Covenant was made, there is no longer a difference between Jew and Gentile, all are one new man in Christ Jesus.

    To claim God still looks to the flesh, and has a plan for fleshly Israel, is a slap in the face to what Christ Jesus accomplished on the cross.
    (1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

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