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Thread: Why Calvinism, Catholicism, Laws, Rules, Religion Will Not Justify

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    Why Calvinism, Catholicism, Laws, Rules, Religion Will Not Justify

    No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ.

    Calvinist, Catholics and others don't want to talk about Justification, especially justification apart from the works of the law.

    Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (religion) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

    There is NOTHING in the Bible about being saved or justified by a decree of God. That is not the way that God saves people. If God saved people by just decreeing them saved, then why didn't he decree that everyone would be saved? When it comes to the salvation of fallen man God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. Calvinism is an attempt to get around Jesus Christ and be saved by a decree from God. Its not going to work.

    The word "justification" basically means to be MADE right before God. Jesus justifies us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves, Paul wrote,

    "To declare, I say, at this time HIS righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

    It is the righteousness of Christ and his atonement for our sins that justifies us and not a decree from God. In the Old Testament era they were also justified by faith.

    "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

    What was it that Abraham believed? Abraham believed that God was going to provide him with a savior. All of the Old Testament saints were justified by God's promise of a savior. There is not one word in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to salvation, neither is there one word in the New Testament about anyone being predestinated to salvation. It is a Calvinist fairy tale.

    Justification is God's way of saving. He sends Jesus into the world to fulfill the law and atone for our sins and in doing so he justifies and reconciles a world of lost sinners unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished and Jesus is Lord, Acts 2:36. No Calvinism or religion needed.

    "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Romans 5:1.

    If you have not been justified by faith, you don't have peace with God. You are still on the outside looking in. Those that are justified by faith in Christ have entered into his rest. They have ceased from their own works and are resting in the work of Christ that was done in their name and on their behalf, Hebrews 4:10.

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    We are justified by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus nothing. Catholics do not believe in justification by faith alone. They believe that it is justification, plus works. Or justification by faith, plus grace. They believe that it is grace working in them that justifies, which is basically works. Any religious thing that we do is a work. However, I don't believe that faith is a work, even if it is, it is not a work that saves. We are saved by the doing an the dying of Jesus and not our faith. Faith is what makes the Gospel ours and brings about justification. No one will be saved that does not believe the Gospel. In the Gospel we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed and stand before God as complete in Christ. Colossians 2:10.

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    pates deception

    We are justified by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus, plus nothing.
    You teach that sinners Christ died for are still lost !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    No one will enter heaven that has not been justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus Christ.

    Calvinist, Catholics and others don't want to talk about Justification, especially justification apart from the works of the law.

    Paul wrote, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (religion) there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

    There is NOTHING in the Bible about being saved or justified by a decree of God. That is not the way that God saves people. If God saved people by just decreeing them saved, then why didn't he decree that everyone would be saved? When it comes to the salvation of fallen man God does NOTHING outside of his Son Jesus Christ. Calvinism is an attempt to get around Jesus Christ and be saved by a decree from God. Its not going to work.

    The word "justification" basically means to be MADE right before God. Jesus justifies us by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves, Paul wrote,

    "To declare, I say, at this time HIS righteousness: that he might be just and the justifier of him that believes in Jesus" Romans 3:26.

    It is the righteousness of Christ and his atonement for our sins that justifies us and not a decree from God. In the Old Testament era they were also justified by faith.

    "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:3.

    What was it that Abraham believed? Abraham believed that God was going to provide him with a savior. All of the Old Testament saints were justified by God's promise of a savior. There is not one word in the Old Testament about anyone being predestinated to salvation, neither is there one word in the New Testament about anyone being predestinated to salvation. It is a Calvinist fairy tale.

    Justification is God's way of saving. He sends Jesus into the world to fulfill the law and atone for our sins and in doing so he justifies and reconciles a world of lost sinners unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished and Jesus is Lord, Acts 2:36. No Calvinism or religion needed.

    "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" Romans 5:1.

    If you have not been justified by faith, you don't have peace with God. You are still on the outside looking in. Those that are justified by faith in Christ have entered into his rest. They have ceased from their own works and are resting in the work of Christ that was done in their name and on their behalf, Hebrews 4:10.
    Yet you teach that sinners Christ shed His Blood for are sill lost ! Thats a denial of His Saving Blood !
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    Yet you teach that sinners Christ shed His Blood for are sill lost ! Thats a denial of His Saving Blood !
    The ones that are lost are the ones like yourself that have rejected God's great free Gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Hebrews 2:9.

    "The free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    The ones that are lost are the ones like yourself that have rejected God's great free Gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Hebrews 2:9.

    "The free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.
    You deny that Christ death saved sinners He died for! That's unbelief and saying Christ is not the Saviour.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
    You deny that Christ death saved sinners He died for! That's unbelief and saying Christ is not the Saviour.

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    You keep parroting the same thing because you can't refute what I say.

    The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    But because you are a religious reprobate you are not able to receive that truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    You keep parroting the same thing because you can't refute what I say.

    The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

    But because you are a religious reprobate you are not able to receive that truth.
    You keep teaching and believing the same thing, that sinners Christ died for are still lost!

    Sent from my 5054N using TheologyOnline mobile app
    "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
    preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
    called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
    a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

    Charles Spurgeon !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post

    "The free gift came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life" Romans 5:18.

    I am going to point out a hypocrisy. You claim that everyone has sinned because "All have sinned," yet here, you demonstrate that you don't believe that everyone is going to heaven, despite the verse saying "the free gift came to all men into justification of life." By your strict literal sense of "all" being every individual, then "all" are going to heaven, according to this verse.

    This is the fallacy inherent with picking and choosing which verses one wants to adhere to literally, yet dismissing others that contradict personal bias and doctrines.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    I am going to point out a hypocrisy. You claim that everyone has sinned because "All have sinned," yet here, you demonstrate that you don't believe that everyone is going to heaven, despite the verse saying "the free gift came to all men into justification of life." By your strict literal sense of "all" being every individual, then "all" are going to heaven, according to this verse.

    This is the fallacy inherent with picking and choosing which verses one wants to adhere to literally, yet dismissing others that contradict personal bias and doctrines.


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    "The free gift came upon all men" Romans 5:18. has the same meaning that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    One might believe that if God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ then everyone is saved just as the free gift came upon all men.

    What these scriptures mean is that God has provided salvation for all men by the doing and the dying of Jesus. It is offered to all men as a gift from God. However, like a gift it must be received. If the gift of salvation is not received it is not ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "The free gift came upon all men" Romans 5:18. has the same meaning that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    One might believe that if God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ then everyone is saved just as the free gift came upon all men.

    What these scriptures mean is that God has provided salvation for all men by the doing and the dying of Jesus. It is offered to all men as a gift from God. However, like a gift it must be received. If the gift of salvation is not received it is not ours.
    It's so strange anybody, even a tare, argues some things, can find some claims intelligent. It's such Sunday school gospel that a pardon is offered to all, but it has to be accepted, received, not, as if, the paper slapped out of the Lord's hand. A person has to repent, seek, knock, respond to the calling, the drawing of the Spirit, in faith, receive the Lord Jesus. Lord means Master, submission to Him and His righteousness, agreement with His issues of sin in man, and all related matters, for that matter, we find from Genesis to Revelation. Obviously, we must recognize our lost condition and need for reconciliation with God to come to faith, must repent, leave our own ways and thoughts behind, see that pathetic lost, stupid and vile creature, and humbly seek fellowship with our perfect Creator, on solely His terms.

    Repentance involves agreement with God. Lack of repentance is a great stumbling stone that will damn many fake, lip service believers of false and partial gospels they choose, over the whole truth. You turn from evil, because you are no longer in agreement with evil, agree with God on the issues. But the simplest gospel is that salvation can only be appropriated by man coming to the Lord in faith. I have no idea what silliness takes over people who dispute what I know I learned and could understand around the first grade. I can understand there are a lot of evil people who daily dispute truths, with a Satanic acid in their blood, though don't know what that has to do with Christian discussion, a lot the claims so unChristian you'd think should be embarrassingly dumb?

    What I see is more like trolls, who will say any stupid thing for attention, and find discussions with most atheists much more intelligent, as at least none of them are stupid enough to dispute the clear claims made of the gospel. The intelligent atheist will at least admit, "That's what the Bible says," on the basic issues. Have you noticed some people here have even invented new religions, like these fake Jew-lite guys? So much here doesn't even exist in scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderfulLordJesus View Post
    It's so strange anybody, even a tare, argues some things, can find some claims intelligent. It's such Sunday school gospel that a pardon is offered to all, but it has to be accepted, received, not, as if, the paper slapped out of the Lord's hand. A person has to repent, seek, knock, respond to the calling, the drawing of the Spirit, in faith, receive the Lord Jesus. Lord means Master, submission to Him and His righteousness, agreement with His issues of sin in man, and all related matters, for that matter, we find from Genesis to Revelation. Obviously, we must recognize our lost condition and need for reconciliation with God to come to faith, must repent, leave our own ways and thoughts behind, see that pathetic lost, stupid and vile creature, and humbly seek fellowship with our perfect Creator, on solely His terms.

    Repentance involves agreement with God. Lack of repentance is a great stumbling stone that will damn many fake, lip service believers of false and partial gospels they choose, over the whole truth. You turn from evil, because you are no longer in agreement with evil, agree with God on the issues. But the simplest gospel is that salvation can only be appropriated by man coming to the Lord in faith. I have no idea what silliness takes over people who dispute what I know I learned and could understand around the first grade. I can understand there are a lot of evil people who daily dispute truths, with a Satanic acid in their blood, though don't know what that has to do with Christian discussion, a lot the claims so unChristian you'd think should be embarrassingly dumb?

    What I see is more like trolls, who will say any stupid thing for attention, and find discussions with most atheists much more intelligent, as at least none of them are stupid enough to dispute the clear claims made of the gospel. The intelligent atheist will at least admit, "That's what the Bible says," on the basic issues. Have you noticed some people here have even invented new religions, like these fake Jew-lite guys? So much here doesn't even exist in scripture.
    I agree. The Bible teaches that it will be this way until he returns. So far I have not lost any blood for my faith in Christ. However, some have in other countries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    "The free gift came upon all men" Romans 5:18. has the same meaning that God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

    One might believe that if God has reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ then everyone is saved just as the free gift came upon all men.

    What these scriptures mean is that God has provided salvation for all men by the doing and the dying of Jesus. It is offered to all men as a gift from God. However, like a gift it must be received. If the gift of salvation is not received it is not ours.
    A person can receive a gift unbeknownst to themselves. Such exceptions exist. (Charities benefiting hospitals and patients: the patients don't always know long accept the charity, etc) To equate Christ's sacrifice to a "free gift" is poor in analogy. Do we not have to carry out cross daily? Such sacrifices on our part do not demonstrate a "free gift." Nor does Christ's passion. It is more akin to a very weighty and heavy gift. Paid for in sacrifice.

    But back to my point, the issue lies with how the definition changes between various "all men" verses in your posts and doctrines. It isn't that the verses themselves change, rather the definition that your doctrines place into them (reading into verses rather than from verses). These definitions are interchanged to make verses fit ideas, rather than the inverse.

    Remember that "Doctrinal Error" thread you were eager to post on: here is an example of your own doctrines falling into error.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    A person can receive a gift unbeknownst to themselves.
    Not forgiveness of sins and justification unto righteousness. That comes only by believing the gospel of the grace of God, and one can't believe anything without actually knowing what it is he's believing. So, no, that Gift cannot be received unknown.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by jsanford108 View Post
    A person can receive a gift unbeknownst to themselves. Such exceptions exist. (Charities benefiting hospitals and patients: the patients don't always know long accept the charity, etc) To equate Christ's sacrifice to a "free gift" is poor in analogy. Do we not have to carry out cross daily? Such sacrifices on our part do not demonstrate a "free gift." Nor does Christ's passion. It is more akin to a very weighty and heavy gift. Paid for in sacrifice.

    But back to my point, the issue lies with how the definition changes between various "all men" verses in your posts and doctrines. It isn't that the verses themselves change, rather the definition that your doctrines place into them (reading into verses rather than from verses). These definitions are interchanged to make verses fit ideas, rather than the inverse.

    Remember that "Doctrinal Error" thread you were eager to post on: here is an example of your own doctrines falling into error.
    The free gift is Salvation...that gift BY GRACE (through faith) has abounded to many - those who access that grace through faith (believing). That's how we believe unto righteousness. Romans 10:10

    Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.

    Therefore, not all men know about the Grace of God...much less how to access that Grace though faith, and that's why they don't receive the FREE GIFT of SALVATION. It's also why we preach the Gospel...so they can hear and believe (saved).

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