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Thread: Blinding of Israel

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    BOO Y'all Tambora's Avatar
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    Blinding of Israel

    Question for the MADists on this site:
    Romans 11 KJV
    (7) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
    (8) (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

    (25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.




    Was their blindness purposely laid on them by GOD (ie. GOD would not let them see)?
    Was that blindness for that generation alive at the time, or for all generations since (ie. still going on)?

    In other words, are there still Jews born in every generation that do not have a chance of seeing?



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    Does Whatever A Light-House Can Lighthouse's Avatar
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    The blindness that has happened in part is ongoing until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Question for the MADists on this site:
    Romans 11 KJV
    (7) What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
    (8) (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; ) unto this day.

    (25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.




    Was their blindness purposely laid on them by GOD (ie. GOD would not let them see)?
    Was that blindness for that generation alive at the time, or for all generations since (ie. still going on)?

    In other words, are there still Jews born in every generation that do not have a chance of seeing?
    I believe God only hardens an already hard heart. The same with blindness. The Jews had plenty of chances to turn to God with faith....so God just extended that blindness in order to expand His mercy and grace to all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I believe God only hardens an already hard heart. The same with blindness. The Jews had plenty of chances to turn to God with faith....so God just extended that blindness in order to expand His mercy and grace to all.
    Wrong


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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Wrong


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    Prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    The blindness that has happened in part is ongoing until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.
    In your estimation, does that mean that GOD has purposely kept some folks from being able to believe for the past 2000 years?
    And yes I know this has a Calvinistic tone to it.



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    What does "in part" mean?
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    In your estimation, does that mean that GOD has purposely kept some folks from being able to believe for the past 2000 years?
    And yes I know this has a Calvinistic tone to it.
    This causes me to think about how loyal most Jews are to their religion....they are so steeped in tradition. What would it take to make them turn to the Lord Jesus Christ? I would say something miraculous. The six day war was pretty miraculous, but they only gave credit to God at that time. It has got to be something bigger.

    Good thread, Tam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    The blindness that has happened in part is ongoing until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.
    I've heard various explanations of what that "fulness" might be. Maybe it will be when the Gentiles who believe demonstrate their faith by lovingly ministering to the people of Israel. When we are successful in standing beside them during their greatest need....witnessing to them as a Christian nation of believers? They will only be provoked to jealousy (want what we have) if they can see our faith in action....if they see our prayers being answered. I think they will have to be very desperate.

    Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Deut. 32:21b I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    Zechariah 2:11
    And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    What does "in part" mean?
    That their is a Remnant of Israel who believed in the Messiahship of Yeshua, also known as the writers of the New Testament and Hebrew Christians.


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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    This causes me to think about how loyal most Jews are to their religion....they are so steeped in tradition. What would it take to make them turn to the Lord Jesus Christ? I would say something miraculous. The six day war was pretty miraculous, but they only gave credit to God at that time. It has got to be something bigger.

    Good thread, Tam.
    What was it they were blinded to? The gospel of uncircumcision that Paul was appointed to, or the gospel of circumcision the 12 were appointed to?

    I feel that they were blinded to the notion that the Lord Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah to restore their kingdom.
    For if they had believed, they would not have crucified Him.
    And if they had not crucified Him, no resurrection.

    But I leave my options open for further clarification.

    Paul makes this statement:

    1 Corinthians 2:8 KJV
    (8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


    Known what?
    Paul's gospel? The 12's gospel? Both?

    And who are the princes of this world/age?
    The Jewish leaders?
    Princes of earthly nations?
    Princes as in angels




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    Their blindness was self-inflicted.

    Spoiler

    Hebrews 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

    Whosoever hath what?

    Ears willing to hear.

    13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    Matthew 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

    In His wrath, He sealed their Believing Remnant; shut down their aspect of His Two-Fold Purpose; cutting them the rest off for their unbelief from its' coming, Promised / Prophesied rest.

    They were now Uncircumcision as a nation.

    Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

    Romans 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

    Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    Guess who's aspect of the gospel of Christ - the gospel of the Uncircumcision - was now their only only option as individuals?

    Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    Instead of individual Gentiles being offered access to and through Israel's Prophesied mercy as a nation; now Individual Israelites were being offered access to and through the Gentiles' Unprophesied Mercy.

    By the way; this here was Prophesied: it is not referring to the Gentiles...

    Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

    Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

    That is these two groups here...

    Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 8:17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

    This here and their number...

    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother. 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

    Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name. 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;

    65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

    John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

    1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

    1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

    1:50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

    That last passage there?

    The - Land - Promise...

    Genesis 28:10 And Jacob went out from Beersheba, and went toward Haran. 28:11 And he lighted upon a certain place, and tarried there all night, because the sun was set; and he took of the stones of that place, and put them for his pillows, and lay down in that place to sleep. 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of. 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not. 28:17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven. 28:18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. 28:19 And he called the name of that place Bethel: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first. 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God: 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
    Last edited by Danoh; May 16th, 2017 at 12:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    What was it they were blinded to? The gospel of uncircumcision that Paul was appointed to, or the gospel of circumcision the 12 were appointed to?

    I feel that they were blinded to the notion that the Lord Jesus Christ was the promised Messiah to restore their kingdom.
    For if they had believed, they would not have crucified Him.
    And if they had not crucified Him, no resurrection.

    But I leave my options open for further clarification.

    Paul makes this statement:

    1 Corinthians 2:8 KJV
    (8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


    Known what?
    Paul's gospel? The 12's gospel? Both?

    And who are the princes of this world/age?
    The Jewish leaders?
    Princes of earthly nations?
    Princes as in angels

    He was the LORD's sacrifice.

    How would God have accomplished that through them had they obeyed?

    He knew they would not. That they would crucify Him in their disobedience.

    And that He would be cut off, but not for Himself, had been Prophesied.

    Leaving the following as being what Paul is telling the Corinthians he had found they had not been ready for, beyond the basic "Christ died for our sins."

    Who is against the Lords Mystery's Glory (God's plan and purpose in His Son in a New Creature by the Spirit for those High or Heavenly Places)?

    Who is it that is against "our glory" - our aspect of the Father's Two-Fold Glory in His Son by the Spirit: that aspect of His Glory in a New Creature?

    Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

    Luke 22:53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    Last edited by Danoh; May 16th, 2017 at 12:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Prove it.
    You just did


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    In your estimation, does that mean that GOD has purposely kept some folks from being able to believe for the past 2000 years?
    And yes I know this has a Calvinistic tone to it.
    No. The blindness is not complete blindness.

    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I've heard various explanations of what that "fulness" might be. Maybe it will be when the Gentiles who believe demonstrate their faith by lovingly ministering to the people of Israel. When we are successful in standing beside them during their greatest need....witnessing to them as a Christian nation of believers? They will only be provoked to jealousy (want what we have) if they can see our faith in action....if they see our prayers being answered. I think they will have to be very desperate.
    Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Deut. 32:21b I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

    Zechariah 2:11
    And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
    I believe it is in reference to the rapture, when this dispensation ends.


  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Lighthouse For Your Post:

    glorydaz (May 19th, 2017),Tambora (May 20th, 2017)

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