User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 19 of 19

Thread: Blinding of Israel

  1. #16
    Over 5000 post club
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    5,316
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 653 Times in 483 Posts

    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    202742
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    Wrong


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

    And glorydaz has a better , lot better answer than your saying WRONG !!

    The blindness of Israel began in Isa 6:8-13 and Lukr 13:6-9 explain !!

    And by the time Jesus entered , Israel was already blind as written in 2 Cor 3:14-16 !!

    Now all have been set aside , FIRST the Gentiles and the Jews during Paul's time and this means that any person saved from Paul to now , that is saved , enters the Body of Christ !!

    Verse 16 says how that happens today , But when ever ( A JEW ) should turn towards the Lord , the VAIL is being taken away !!

    Obvoiusly that Jew who turns to the Lord is just part of the elect and that person becomes the PATTERN that Paul wrote in 1 Tim 1:16 !!

    The first verb is SHALL TURN / EPISTREPHO is in the AORIST TENSE that points to Paul's ministry , BUT is controlled by the SUBJECTIVE MOOD of the possibility of it happening !!

    So , what is the PATTEREN intojoy ??

    dan p

  2. #17
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    6,529
    Thanks
    331
    Thanked 710 Times in 606 Posts

    Mentioned
    20 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    And glorydaz has a better , lot better answer than your saying WRONG !!

    The blindness of Israel began in Isa 6:8-13 and Lukr 13:6-9 explain !!

    And by the time Jesus entered , Israel was already blind as written in 2 Cor 3:14-16 !!

    Now all have been set aside , FIRST the Gentiles and the Jews during Paul's time and this means that any person saved from Paul to now , that is saved , enters the Body of Christ !!

    Verse 16 says how that happens today , But when ever ( A JEW ) should turn towards the Lord , the VAIL is being taken away !!

    Obvoiusly that Jew who turns to the Lord is just part of the elect and that person becomes the PATTERN that Paul wrote in 1 Tim 1:16 !!

    The first verb is SHALL TURN / EPISTREPHO is in the AORIST TENSE that points to Paul's ministry , BUT is controlled by the SUBJECTIVE MOOD of the possibility of it happening !!

    So , what is the PATTEREN intojoy ??

    dan p
    JOEL

    Name: means Jehovah is God
    Date:
    * no kingship mentioned
    * Joel 3:16 quoted by Amos in 1:2 & 3:18 in Amos 9:13 thus putting his prophecy before Amos.
    * he does not rail against idolatry like Amos
    * Probably prophesied during the reign of Joash a good king in 835 BC
    Locale: Judah probably Jerusalem
    Historical Setting: a locust invasion that set the stage for two future invasions one demonic and one an army.
    Two Major Points: (1) God controls world events (2) God always responds to repentance
    Theme: The Day of Jehovah 1:15,2:1,11,31,3:14.
    NT Quotes: 2:28-32 in Acts 2:17-21, and 2:32 in Rom 10:13.

    Historical Locust Invasion 2-14

    Vs 2: This invasion unique to all past history. The old men could not recall anything to compare it to.

    Vs 3: Elders are told to tell of it to four generations.

    Vs 4: Four stages of devastation: Four successive swarms. In the Old Testament the number four sometimes represents totality of destruction (Jer 15:3, Ez 14:21). Again by the time Joel writes these words this is not a prophecy but already history. But it will become the background for something prophetic.

    Vs 5: The drunks are called to awake after their last binge and to weep and wail for there wine is to be cut off.

    Vs 6: These things are destroyed by an army of locusts which symbolizes an army as in Pr 30:25,27.

    Vs 7: The branches are made white meaning the bark itself has been eaten up. Not only are the drunks to mourn but also the rest of the population.

    Vs 8: Those to lament (Hebrew word for lament "Betulah" used only here and nowhere else in the OT it's a feminine imperative because it pictures the whole nation as the virgin daughter of Zion).

    Vs 9: Priesthood called to repent now because the things that sustained them from the tithes is now gone.

    Vs 10 - 12a: Again emphasis on what has been lost.

    Vs 12b: No Feast of First Fruits.

    Vs 13: Refers to the priesthood as the ministers of the altar because they were responsible for the offering and as ministers of my God because they were responsible for representing God. They're told to keep the sackcloth normally worn only at day are to keep it on even in their sleep.

    There is a real danger of massive starvation.

    Vs 14: Joel calls upon all people to fast which would be a sign (Judges 20:26, Neh 1:4) of outward national grief and repentance. And to cry unto the Lord showing the inward repentance.

    The Prophetic Invasion, Joel Shoots Forward to the Day of Jehovah

    Vs 15: Begins with an announcement: (Joel's theme) The Day of Jehovah is at hand.

    Vs 16: In this day also sustenance cut off from the temple as in the locust invasion.

    Vs 17: In the preceding invasion things were destroyed by things eating them but here these things will be destroyed by fire.

    Vs 18: Devastation on the livestock.

    Chapter 2 Describes the Tribulation

    Vs 1: once again the alarm is sounded to announce the approaching army the alarm sounds from the Temple Mount. That Day of Jehovah has finally arrived.

    Vs 2: described in four terms (1) darkness (2) gloominess (3) clouds (4) thick darkness
    Is 8:22,69:2, Amos 5:18-20 Zeph 1:14-16.
    *As dawn spreads the Day of Jehovah will be both sudden and wide spread.
    *Notice the words "AS" and "LIKE", in other words they don't really do this, they appear like they do this, appearance is of a human army but something about them makes them non human.
    *As bad as the previous locusts invasion was, this one will be far worse.

    Vs 3: The devastation they cause. Again not by eating but by fire.

    Vs 4: Their appearances are "as" horseman.

    Vs 5: They make noise like fire a crackling sound.

    Vs 6: The terror they cause.

    Vs 8: They are disciplined.

    Vs 9: Description of their attack.

    Vs 10: A blackout appears.

    Vs 11: Joel points out that this is a divine judgement from God. This massive army is executing God's word. Revelation does not really provide a lot of new information besides the last two chapters 21 & 22. Most of what's in Revelation is scattered throughout the OT. What Revelation does is it gives the chronology of events. Here in Joel 2 Revelation chapter 9 elaborates that there will be 2 demonic invasions 9:11 where the demons are told not to kill but to torment men for five months. After five months comes the second demonic invasion 9:13-21 where they kill one third of humanity.

    Similarities in Revelation 9 and Joel 2
    *army has horselike and locust features
    *fire causes massive devastation
    *causes convulsions of nature
    *causes a blackout - there are 5 different blackouts. (1) before the Tribulation (2,3,4) during the Tribulation, and (5) right afterwards. This blackout in Joel 2 is the third blackout.
    *destruction comes from the destroyer.

    What Joel is describing is what John was describing, a demonic army invasion. Joel says their camp was very great, John gives their number as 2 million demons. Not Chinese but demons.

    The Exhortation to Fasting and Prayer

    Vs 12: People now required to fast, weep, mourn. Inward and external repentance.

    Vs 13-14: God does respond to repentance (Ex 34:6).

    Vs 15-17: Alarm sounded again but not for warning but for the solemn assembly. Priests called to request of God that the people be spared on the basis of (1) Israel are the chosen people, and (2) based that Gentiles would not deride them and question God.

    In the first part the book Joel has described a recent invasion and asked for the people to pray that there won't be mass starvation. That led to a prophetic invasion, a demonic invasion leading to a call of the solemn assembly to ask God to intervene.

    The Salvation and Restoration of Israel

    Vs 18-20: God's mercy, (1) God was jealous for His land (Zac 1:14,8:2, Ex 34:14, Ez 39:5), and (2) God has pity on His people, God will never allow a total destruction of His people.
    The main army will die in the Negev in the north. Eastern sea - Dead Sea.
    With such massive destruction of a human army there's a stench.

    God will do positive things

    Vs 21: Land rejoices.

    Vs 22: Even the animals can rejoice.

    Vs 23-26: The Jews rejoice and give thanks for five things (1) (the translators didn't know what to do with this so they wrote "he gives the former rain in just measure") there are just 2 Hebrew words here and should be translated "for the teacher of righteousness"the first thing they are to rejoice for is for their Messiah, (2) for the rains coming in their proper seasons, (3) for the grain, wine and oil, (4) the restoration of previous losses, and (5) because shame has been removed.

    Vs 27: Ultimately Israel will know their God.

    Joel Describes the Event that Leads to Israel's National Salvation, the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the Third Invasion the Campaign of Armageddon

    Chapter three in the Hebrew bible begins with 2:28.

    Vs 28: The key word is "afterwards" after Israel's repentance comes this national salvation, this outpouring of the Spirit.

    Vs 29: Pronoun "your" meaning all Jews living during that time and not all flesh in the world. This is what Paul talks about in Romans 12.

    Vs 30-31: He points to signs heralding that this is coming (1) convulsions of nature (elaborated on in the book of Revelation), (2) blackout, the first of those five blackouts. This one coming before the Tribulation.

    Vs 32: The prerequisite to the outpouring of the Spirit - Israel's calling upon the name of the Lord. Only one third of the Jewish population survive and these are the Remnant who are identified as those who escaped now called so the second time in the minor prophets.

    The Judgement of the Gentiles

    Chapter Three
    Vs 1: The timing - in those days and in that time - what time? When Israel is saved. Daniel 12 points out that there will be a 75 day interval between the end of the Tribulation and the starting of the Messianic Kingdom during which time several things will take place.

    Vs 2: The subjects are all Gentiles who survive,

    Vs 3: will be judged in the valley of Jehoshaphat/Kidron. Judged on the basis of Matthew 25 how they aided the Jews during the Tribulation separated as goats and sheep. Judged for (1) scattering the Jews, (2) parting the land, (3) for enslaving the Jews.

    Vs 4-7: those guilty are Phonecia present day Lebanon and Philistia present day Gaza Strip area.

    Vs 8: Those who caused enslavement are enslaved.

    Vs 9: Summary of key features of the Campaign of Armageddon. Proclaimed in Revelation 17:12-16 by the antichrist. When the people around world hear the decree to come against the Jews they do so with

    Vs 10: with enthusiasm. With speed and with haste. What they don't realize is that God is bringing these nations together that will end in gentile defeat.

    Vs 12: Gathered together on the valley of Jehoshaphat for judgement.

    Vs 13: Rev 14:14-16 reaping. Reaping a symbol of salvation there will be salvation among the Gentiles. Treading - judgement just outside the city.

    Vs 14: multitudes of Gentiles

    Vs 15: accompanied with a blackout , blackout number 5

    Vs 16: The goat Gentiles showed their lack of faith by their antisemitism and perish. But the sheep Gentiles showed their faith by their pro Semitic works and will populate the Messianic Kingdom. These are the nations that the church saints will judge over during the kingdom.

    Vs 18-21: Ends his book with a description of the Messianic Kingdom. "It shall come to pass in that Day" is a prophetic motif for the kingdom.
    *A special river. It flows into the Dead Sea causing life, fish.
    *Different settlements than those in book of Joshua
    *Dramatic changes in the land's geography explained by Zachariah.
    * Edom suffers total destruction.
    * Egypt suffers only for 40 years. Then they exist as a nation during the kingdom.
    * Judah shall abide forever.
    * Israel will be a saved state with Messiah ruling.




















    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

  3. #18
    Rookie notreligus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    31
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2242
    John 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
    John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
    John 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
    John 5:42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.
    John 5:43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
    John 5:44 How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?
    John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope.
    John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me.
    John 5:47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?"

    The Jews rejected what Moses had already told them about the Messiah in the Pentateuch. Jesus told them that they were condemned by Moses in the sense that they had rejected what Moses had already told him. The Jews still reject Messiah and many still claim that Isaiah 53 is about Israel and not about the Suffering Servant. They will not be saved by covenantal nomism. They will be saved by having their faith in Christ. This is obviously the message of this passage from the Book of John.
    Law makes a demand. Grace makes a provision.

  4. #19
    Over 5000 post club
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    L.A.
    Posts
    5,316
    Thanks
    34
    Thanked 653 Times in 483 Posts

    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    202742
    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    JOEL

    Name: means Jehovah is God
    Date:
    * no kingship mentioned
    * Joel 3:16 quoted by Amos in 1:2 & 3:18 in Amos 9:13 thus putting his prophecy before Amos.
    * he does not rail against idolatry like Amos
    * Probably prophesied during the reign of Joash a good king in 835 BC
    Locale: Judah probably Jerusalem
    Historical Setting: a locust invasion that set the stage for two future invasions one demonic and one an army.
    Two Major Points: (1) God controls world events (2) God always responds to repentance
    Theme: The Day of Jehovah 1:15,2:1,11,31,3:14.
    NT Quotes: 2:28-32 in Acts 2:17-21, and 2:32 in Rom 10:13.

    Historical Locust Invasion 2-14

    Vs 2: This invasion unique to all past history. The old men could not recall anything to compare it to.

    Vs 3: Elders are told to tell of it to four generations.

    Vs 4: Four stages of devastation: Four successive swarms. In the Old Testament the number four sometimes represents totality of destruction (Jer 15:3, Ez 14:21). Again by the time Joel writes these words this is not a prophecy but already history. But it will become the background for something prophetic.

    Vs 5: The drunks are called to awake after their last binge and to weep and wail for there wine is to be cut off.

    Vs 6: These things are destroyed by an army of locusts which symbolizes an army as in Pr 30:25,27.

    Vs 7: The branches are made white meaning the bark itself has been eaten up. Not only are the drunks to mourn but also the rest of the population.

    Vs 8: Those to lament (Hebrew word for lament "Betulah" used only here and nowhere else in the OT it's a feminine imperative because it pictures the whole nation as the virgin daughter of Zion).

    Vs 9: Priesthood called to repent now because the things that sustained them from the tithes is now gone.

    Vs 10 - 12a: Again emphasis on what has been lost.

    Vs 12b: No Feast of First Fruits.

    Vs 13: Refers to the priesthood as the ministers of the altar because they were responsible for the offering and as ministers of my God because they were responsible for representing God. They're told to keep the sackcloth normally worn only at day are to keep it on even in their sleep.

    There is a real danger of massive starvation.

    Vs 14: Joel calls upon all people to fast which would be a sign (Judges 20:26, Neh 1:4) of outward national grief and repentance. And to cry unto the Lord showing the inward repentance.

    The Prophetic Invasion, Joel Shoots Forward to the Day of Jehovah

    Vs 15: Begins with an announcement: (Joel's theme) The Day of Jehovah is at hand.

    Vs 16: In this day also sustenance cut off from the temple as in the locust invasion.

    Vs 17: In the preceding invasion things were destroyed by things eating them but here these things will be destroyed by fire.

    Vs 18: Devastation on the livestock.

    Chapter 2 Describes the Tribulation

    Vs 1: once again the alarm is sounded to announce the approaching army the alarm sounds from the Temple Mount. That Day of Jehovah has finally arrived.

    Vs 2: described in four terms (1) darkness (2) gloominess (3) clouds (4) thick darkness
    Is 8:22,69:2, Amos 5:18-20 Zeph 1:14-16.
    *As dawn spreads the Day of Jehovah will be both sudden and wide spread.
    *Notice the words "AS" and "LIKE", in other words they don't really do this, they appear like they do this, appearance is of a human army but something about them makes them non human.
    *As bad as the previous locusts invasion was, this one will be far worse.

    Vs 3: The devastation they cause. Again not by eating but by fire.

    Vs 4: Their appearances are "as" horseman.

    Vs 5: They make noise like fire a crackling sound.

    Vs 6: The terror they cause.

    Vs 8: They are disciplined.

    Vs 9: Description of their attack.

    Vs 10: A blackout appears.

    Vs 11: Joel points out that this is a divine judgement from God. This massive army is executing God's word. Revelation does not really provide a lot of new information besides the last two chapters 21 & 22. Most of what's in Revelation is scattered throughout the OT. What Revelation does is it gives the chronology of events. Here in Joel 2 Revelation chapter 9 elaborates that there will be 2 demonic invasions 9:11 where the demons are told not to kill but to torment men for five months. After five months comes the second demonic invasion 9:13-21 where they kill one third of humanity.

    Similarities in Revelation 9 and Joel 2
    *army has horselike and locust features
    *fire causes massive devastation
    *causes convulsions of nature
    *causes a blackout - there are 5 different blackouts. (1) before the Tribulation (2,3,4) during the Tribulation, and (5) right afterwards. This blackout in Joel 2 is the third blackout.
    *destruction comes from the destroyer.

    What Joel is describing is what John was describing, a demonic army invasion. Joel says their camp was very great, John gives their number as 2 million demons. Not Chinese but demons.

    The Exhortation to Fasting and Prayer

    Vs 12: People now required to fast, weep, mourn. Inward and external repentance.

    Vs 13-14: God does respond to repentance (Ex 34:6).

    Vs 15-17: Alarm sounded again but not for warning but for the solemn assembly. Priests called to request of God that the people be spared on the basis of (1) Israel are the chosen people, and (2) based that Gentiles would not deride them and question God.

    In the first part the book Joel has described a recent invasion and asked for the people to pray that there won't be mass starvation. That led to a prophetic invasion, a demonic invasion leading to a call of the solemn assembly to ask God to intervene.

    The Salvation and Restoration of Israel

    Vs 18-20: God's mercy, (1) God was jealous for His land (Zac 1:14,8:2, Ex 34:14, Ez 39:5), and (2) God has pity on His people, God will never allow a total destruction of His people.
    The main army will die in the Negev in the north. Eastern sea - Dead Sea.
    With such massive destruction of a human army there's a stench.

    God will do positive things

    Vs 21: Land rejoices.

    Vs 22: Even the animals can rejoice.

    Vs 23-26: The Jews rejoice and give thanks for five things (1) (the translators didn't know what to do with this so they wrote "he gives the former rain in just measure") there are just 2 Hebrew words here and should be translated "for the teacher of righteousness"the first thing they are to rejoice for is for their Messiah, (2) for the rains coming in their proper seasons, (3) for the grain, wine and oil, (4) the restoration of previous losses, and (5) because shame has been removed.

    Vs 27: Ultimately Israel will know their God.

    Joel Describes the Event that Leads to Israel's National Salvation, the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the Third Invasion the Campaign of Armageddon

    Chapter three in the Hebrew bible begins with 2:28.

    Vs 28: The key word is "afterwards" after Israel's repentance comes this national salvation, this outpouring of the Spirit.

    Vs 29: Pronoun "your" meaning all Jews living during that time and not all flesh in the world. This is what Paul talks about in Romans 12.

    Vs 30-31: He points to signs heralding that this is coming (1) convulsions of nature (elaborated on in the book of Revelation), (2) blackout, the first of those five blackouts. This one coming before the Tribulation.

    Vs 32: The prerequisite to the outpouring of the Spirit - Israel's calling upon the name of the Lord. Only one third of the Jewish population survive and these are the Remnant who are identified as those who escaped now called so the second time in the minor prophets.

    The Judgement of the Gentiles

    Chapter Three
    Vs 1: The timing - in those days and in that time - what time? When Israel is saved. Daniel 12 points out that there will be a 75 day interval between the end of the Tribulation and the starting of the Messianic Kingdom during which time several things will take place.

    Vs 2: The subjects are all Gentiles who survive,

    Vs 3: will be judged in the valley of Jehoshaphat/Kidron. Judged on the basis of Matthew 25 how they aided the Jews during the Tribulation separated as goats and sheep. Judged for (1) scattering the Jews, (2) parting the land, (3) for enslaving the Jews.

    Vs 4-7: those guilty are Phonecia present day Lebanon and Philistia present day Gaza Strip area.

    Vs 8: Those who caused enslavement are enslaved.

    Vs 9: Summary of key features of the Campaign of Armageddon. Proclaimed in Revelation 17:12-16 by the antichrist. When the people around world hear the decree to come against the Jews they do so with

    Vs 10: with enthusiasm. With speed and with haste. What they don't realize is that God is bringing these nations together that will end in gentile defeat.

    Vs 12: Gathered together on the valley of Jehoshaphat for judgement.

    Vs 13: Rev 14:14-16 reaping. Reaping a symbol of salvation there will be salvation among the Gentiles. Treading - judgement just outside the city.

    Vs 14: multitudes of Gentiles

    Vs 15: accompanied with a blackout , blackout number 5

    Vs 16: The goat Gentiles showed their lack of faith by their antisemitism and perish. But the sheep Gentiles showed their faith by their pro Semitic works and will populate the Messianic Kingdom. These are the nations that the church saints will judge over during the kingdom.

    Vs 18-21: Ends his book with a description of the Messianic Kingdom. "It shall come to pass in that Day" is a prophetic motif for the kingdom.
    *A special river. It flows into the Dead Sea causing life, fish.
    *Different settlements than those in book of Joshua
    *Dramatic changes in the land's geography explained by Zachariah.
    * Edom suffers total destruction.
    * Egypt suffers only for 40 years. Then they exist as a nation during the kingdom.
    * Judah shall abide forever.
    * Israel will be a saved state with Messiah ruling.




















    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

    Hi and reply to 2 Cor 3:13-16 is the answer and lets see you refute that verse ?

    And you wrote the above and means nothing !!

    dan p

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us