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Thread: JESUS IS NOT YHWH

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    Over 2000 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
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    JESUS IS NOT YHWH

    I started the previous post with the same name to encourage people to explain how 2 particular verses could possibly be referring to just one individual. The scriptures are:

    Psalm 110

    Isaiah 61:1,2


    No one has attempted to explain these verses yet. What is the problem? I would like the people who believe that Jesus is YHWH to share their thoughts as to why these verses do NOT refer to two different Persons.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER jamie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    No one has attempted to explain these verses yet. What is the problem? I would like the people who believe that Jesus is YHWH to share their thoughts as to why these verses do NOT refer to two different Persons.
    What's to explain, they refer to two different immortal beings.

    One is the Most High, one is less high.

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    Psalm 110
    Of David. A psalm.

    1
    (The Lord / Yahwah) says to my lord.

    The name Yahwah has been replaced with (The Lord.)

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    Isaiah 61:1-2New International Version (NIV)
    The Year of the Lord’s Favor

    61 The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
    because the Lord has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
    He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
    to proclaim freedom for the captives
    and release from darkness for the prisoners,[a]
    2
    to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
    and the day of vengeance of our God,
    to comfort all who mourn,...

    And again the names Yahwah has been replaced with Lord.

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    Isaiah 61:1,2

    No one has attempted to explain these verses yet.
    Those verses are a prophecy which speaks of what the Lord Jesus would do after He was made in the likeness of men:

    "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).

    Before he was made flesh He was "in the form of God." The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

    So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because the Lord Jesus is God:

    "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads"
    (Rev.22:3-4).

    The Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom and He cannot be seen by men because our flesh and blood bodies are not equipped to see eternal things (1 Cor.4:18). And here how He is described as He sits in the eternal kingdom at the present time:

    "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Tim.1:16-17).

    The Lord Jesus is the only God.

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    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    I started the previous post with the same name to encourage people to explain how 2 particular verses could possibly be referring to just one individual. The scriptures are:

    Psalm 110

    Isaiah 61:1,2


    No one has attempted to explain these verses yet. What is the problem? I would like the people who believe that Jesus is YHWH to share their thoughts as to why these verses do NOT refer to two different Persons.
    Very simply John 1:1 We are tri- -une. The half you are thinking of, we embrace.

    I'm not sure as a JW you'd be able to grasp what has been said after 200 threads on the matter. Hasn't all that will ever be said, been said???

    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Silver Member glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post

    The Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom and He cannot be seen by men because our flesh and blood bodies are not equipped to see eternal things (1 Cor.4:18). And here how He is described as He sits in the eternal kingdom at the present time:

    "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Tim.1:16-17).

    The Lord Jesus is the only God.
    Excellent post, Jerry. I'll add this to how He is described as John saw Him.

    Rev. 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

    Rev. 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

    Rev. 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

    Rev. 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

    Rev. 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    Rev. 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

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    You can pick verses out of context to support almost any heretical doctrine, Taking the entirety of Gor's Word, we see who Jesus is.
    Throughout both OT and NT we see that Jesus is God. Jesus has every attribute that God the Father does.
    Jesus is omnipotent
    He has "all authority"...Matthew 28:18

    Jesus is omnipresent
    "Where 2 or 3...I am there" Matt. 18:20

    Jesus is omniscient.
    John 1:48-50 Jesus knew where Nathaniel was.

    Jesus is called God.
    "Of the Son he(God the Father) says, "Thy throne oh God..."" Heb. 1:8
    And,
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
    So the Word WAS GOD...... then compare to v14... the Word became human

    Jesus is also called 'Lord'. Matt. 22:43-45

    Jesus is the 'King of kings and Lord of lords'. Rev. 19:16

    Jesus receives worship from angels and humans
    .."Let all the angels of God worship Him" Heb. 1:6
    And...
    "At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow, of those who are in Heaven, and those on earth, and under the earth."
    Phil. 2:10

    Jesus claimed to be equal to his father.
    "I and the Father are one." John 10:30

    Jesus is the mighty God and the everlasting Father Is.9:6

    Jesus is the Creator. Col. 1:16

    Jesus forgives sin Luke 7:48 Consider... if somebody breaks your dads arm,,, who can forgive the person? Forgiveness can only be offered by the person who has been harmed. Likewise with sin....it is a transgression against God so only He can offer forgiveness. Why were the Pharisees upset when Jesus forgave...because they understood it was blasphemy...UNLESS Jesus was the Creator God.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Over 2500 post club beameup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    I started the previous post with the same name to encourage people to explain how 2 particular verses could possibly be referring to just one individual. The scriptures are:

    Psalm 110

    Isaiah 61:1,2


    No one has attempted to explain these verses yet. What is the problem? I would like the people who believe that Jesus is YHWH to share their thoughts as to why these verses do NOT refer to two different Persons.
    This subject has already been covered in a previous thread of the same title.
    You failed to even consider other OT references presented. You stubbornly insist
    on "plucking" only two references from the Old Testament. JWs are "master pluckers".

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    People keep mentioning revelation, but they don't take into account the first 2 verses?

    The Revelation which Jesus received and spoke is from God, and he is speaking God's word to John.

    And why would Christ Jesus, need to receive Revelation from God, if he is God? He wouldn't!

    Revelation 1 1-2

    Revelation 1:1

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, ,which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    Jesus is speaking what God has given him to speak, and God is always with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    People keep mentioning revelation, but they don't take into account the first 2 verses?

    The Revelation which Jesus received and spoke is from God, and he is speaking God's word to John.

    And why would Christ Jesus, need to receive Revelation from God, if he is God? He wouldn't!

    Revelation 1 1-2

    Revelation 1:1

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, ,which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

    Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    Jesus is speaking what God has given him to speak, and God is always with him.
    And Elohim gave it to him here:

    Mark 1:12-13 ASV
    12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.
    13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts;
    [Rev 13:2] and the angels ministered unto him.

    Not some sixty years later, (95AD), when he was already seated at the right hand of the Father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Jesus is speaking what God has given him to speak, and God is always with him.
    You mean like this?
    I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. - John 8:28b
    Or this?
    whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. - John 12:50b
    How about this:
    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. - John 14:10

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    Psalm 110

    The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

    Matthew 22

    While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
    Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

    Acts 2

    For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

    Until I make thy foes thy footstool.Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ

    Why would God make Jesus Lord, if Jesus is the LORD God? (Acts 2) There are 2 Lord's here, the LORD God Almighty, and our Lord Jesus Christ, who has been made both Lord and Christ by God the father!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    And Elohim gave it to him here:

    Mark 1:12-13 ASV
    12 And straightway the Spirit driveth him forth into the wilderness.
    13 And he was in the wilderness forty days tempted of Satan; and he was with the wild beasts;
    [Rev 13:2] and the angels ministered unto him.

    Not some sixty years later, (95AD), when he was already seated at the right hand of the Father.
    Yes, absolutely, Jesus always received revelation from God, every word he spoke came from the father.

    John 12

    For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    You mean like this?
    I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. - John 8:28b
    Or this?
    whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. - John 12:50b
    How about this:
    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. - John 14:10
    Yes, and all that is true, and I believe it all. Because the father was in in our Lord Jesus. And God gave him power over all flesh, Christ Jesus even says, in the verses that you have quoted that it is the father in him who is doing the works.

    And there is also this,

    2 Corinthians 5

    To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    God was in Christ, Christ Jesus had the fullness of God bodily, and he had the full power of the Holy Spirit because there was no sin in him.

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