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Thread: MAD is a lie and is proved to be a lie from scripture !

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    He is on a "spam any irrelevant verse on every thread" campaign.

    Troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Let's debate without you being able to say that.

    According to you, Jesus was facing the wrong way.




    GT
    if you will look into Gal 5 about the fruit of the spirit, you will find the right cause and effect relation of these things. It says 'about such things (the fruit), you don't make laws.' why wouldn't you make laws? because they just grow from the Spirit at work. He's trying to say that they are not the product of conscious
    deliberate thought like you are saying, but they are in response to being swept by the glory of the Gospel. "He loves much has been forgiven much." The person who is stingy about forgiving is not up to date on the Gospel's depth, breadth, width.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    GT
    I am going to carefully read what you have to say and then I reply.
    How about you stop doing this hit and run thing where you say a bunch of false things about God and then don't come back after you are rebuked with the truth?
    You expect as much from the madists, why not you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    if you will look into Gal 5 about the fruit of the spirit, you will find the right cause and effect relation of these things.
    I know what the fruit of the Spirit is, do you know the old law is spiritual?

    How about answer the questions and reply to what I say instead of say your ignorant things and not come back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    It says 'about such things (the fruit), you don't make laws.' why wouldn't you make laws?
    Jesus IS the Spirit and he gave us commands.

    How do you ever get that Jesus came for a limited few and his words were ineffective for the rest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    because they just grow from the Spirit at work. He's trying to say that they are not the product of conscious
    deliberate thought like you are saying, but they are in response to being swept by the glory of the Gospel.
    What you say is not from the Bible. Give scripture that says all of Jesus' teachings no longer give life.
    Do you need Paul's many scriptures where he tells the saved what to do?

    You really want to say that Paul didn't teach us the new law, the law of Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    "He loves much has been forgiven much." The person who is stingy about forgiving is not up to date on the Gospel's depth, breadth, width.
    Forgiving is a command from Jesus.

    How is it that you do not know that forgiving is a command from Jesus for the new covenant?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I am going to carefully read what you have to say and then I reply.
    How about you stop doing this hit and run thing where you say a bunch of false things about God and then don't come back after you are rebuked with the truth?
    You expect as much from the madists, why not you?


    I know what the fruit of the Spirit is, do you know the old law is spiritual?

    How about answer the questions and reply to what I say instead of say your ignorant things and not come back?



    Jesus IS the Spirit and he gave us commands.

    How do you ever get that Jesus came for a limited few and his words were ineffective for the rest?


    What you say is not from the Bible. Give scripture that says all of Jesus' teachings no longer give life.
    Do you need Paul's many scriptures where he tells the saved what to do?

    You really want to say that Paul didn't teach us the new law, the law of Christ?



    Forgiving is a command from Jesus.

    How is it that you do not know that forgiving is a command from Jesus for the new covenant?




    I do, but it is a fruit that grows spontaneously for those who know the Gospel. It is not be seen as a command first.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    I do, but it is a fruit that grows spontaneously for those who know the Gospel. It is not be seen as a command first.
    What do you mean it is a spontaneous fruit for those who KNOW the gospel? What do you mean it is not seen as a command first?

    Jesus gave the command. When someone wants to be saved, they get Jesus' teachings and do what he says to do to get saved. One of the things Jesus says one must do to get saved is that we have to forgive others.

    Jesus tells us what to do to have a heart that he will live in.

    One of those things a person has to do is to forgive others.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    when a person is forgiven much, they love. It is not a matter of them (or anyone else) 'making' them love. Likewise the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5. "There is no law" is best read as "About these (fruits) you don't make laws..." They grow by nature because everything the person thought has been so totally changed.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

  8. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    when a person is forgiven much, they love.
    When a person is forgiven much, they love much.

    You won't even be forgiven unless you obey Jesus and forgive others. You won't even be forgiven unless you repent.

    Do you want me to give the scriptures that say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    It is not a matter of them (or anyone else) 'making' them love.
    Making them love? What does that mean?

    We obey Jesus' teachings and we learn how to love deeply from the heart...to love sincerely.

    Do you want me to give you the scripture references?


    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    Likewise the fruit of the Spirit in Gal 5. "There is no law" is best read as "About these (fruits) you don't make laws..." They grow by nature because everything the person thought has been so totally changed.
    Since you claim you don't need the words of Christ to obey, why do you use them?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

  9. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    When a person is forgiven much, they love much.

    You won't even be forgiven unless you obey Jesus and forgive others. You won't even be forgiven unless you repent.

    Do you want me to give the scriptures that say that?


    Making them love? What does that mean?

    We obey Jesus' teachings and we learn how to love deeply from the heart...to love sincerely.

    Do you want me to give you the scripture references?




    Since you claim you don't need the words of Christ to obey, why do you use them?




    What I'm saying is that these expressions are not describing a person harshly yanking their nervous system into control and compulsively doing them. They WANT to do them because of the inspiring glory of the grace of God in the Gospel. Their wants in their inner man have been changed.

    This is especially interesting in view of how Paul talks to Judaizers in Gal 5 who were all about such compulsion. On themselves and on others. Notice the twin problem of the flesh 5:19: not only the list of things it does wrong, but that those are called works (don't we usually refer to religious observances and tradition-keeping as 'works', 'works of the law'? so what is it doing here?!!!)

    Try to find things to agree on; you sound like you won't know what to do with yourself if there is agreement, like you have to find a disagreement.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    What I'm saying is that these expressions are not describing a person harshly yanking their nervous system into control and compulsively doing them. They WANT to do them because of the inspiring glory of the grace of God in the Gospel. Their wants in their inner man have been changed.

    This is especially interesting in view of how Paul talks to Judaizers in Gal 5 who were all about such compulsion. On themselves and on others. Notice the twin problem of the flesh 5:19: not only the list of things it does wrong, but that those are called works (don't we usually refer to religious observances and tradition-keeping as 'works', 'works of the law'? so what is it doing here?!!!)

    Try to find things to agree on; you sound like you won't know what to do with yourself if there is agreement, like you have to find a disagreement.
    Part of what you said in those first and second paragraphs there is not necessarily an automatic.

    There are many in whom Gal. 2:20's "who loved me and gave himself for me" obviously does not necessarily automatically result in Gal. 5:6's "faith: which worketh by love."

    Many often evidence instead a kind of "He loved me and mine: died for me and mine; not for you and yours."

    And the Galatians may have started out wonderfully, but may have ended up otherwise.

    Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

    The "fruit of the Spirit" - "love" -is not necessarily an automatic in each individual, as that is largely a function of upbringing.

    Be it that of their upbringing before they were saved, and or that plus whatever upbringing they have, or have not had by the gospel itself after salvation, along with each their decision to walk in said instruction, once received.

    Paul's writings, for example, evidences much of each.

    We read of people in his writings (1) who were simply noble people before they were saved; and of (2) people who changed only after they were saved; and of (3) people who still needed much changing for the better, or "as becometh the gospel" long after they'd been saved.

    And we read of much instruction in, and of the need to consciously work on, bringing one's state up to the high level of one's standing in the Lord.

    As with the Bereans of Acts 17.

    Their being "more noble than those at Thessalonica" is the issue of how they as lost people had at first received the news that that Jesus Who had been Crucified, really had been the Christ.

    Their nobility of mind is mentioned in contrast to that of those at Thessalonica: who instead of at least having at first "received the word with all readiness of mind" became more than a bit hostile towards Paul.

    As with any of the other fruits of the Spirit, the love motivated is as much a function of its resulting impact on the individual, as it is of the individual's impact on it, that is to say, it is a function of what each person brings to the table as a result of their particular personality.

    You can see this in how those on here who dislike you and or your assertions, treat or mistreat you.

    Obviously, where each sees the role of agape when dealing with some one opposed to their views, differs in each.

    This, in turn, says something about where each is in each their having been instructed in same by the gospel itself, or not, as well as where each is in their actual walking in said instruction.

    Again, what one often finds in the infamous Religious Right is just that - religion.

    Which is the issue of legalism.

    Of Performance Based Acceptance of others.

    In such, their relationship with the Lord is much like that of a symbiosis.

    Wherein any "love" extended towards others functions from within a kind of a narcissism that is then extended out only to those one concludes speaks one's language, or that one has concluded is a part of one, in some way.

    Its result being a double-standard.

    A kind of "this standard here is for me and mine; this other standard here is for those not of our number."

    Sort of like how in the extreme of that, the genocidal villain nevertheless has tears for those he considers his own.

    Obviously, these various kinds of things had been the same kinds of issues the Apostle Paul had frequently encountered way back in th 1st Century; for he certainly invests a great deal of time having to address them - in saved people.

    Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    1 Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

    And so on...

    The answer to it all?

    Remembering the truth of Romans 5:8.

  11. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    What I'm saying is that these expressions are not describing a person harshly yanking their nervous system into control and compulsively doing them. They WANT to do them because of the inspiring glory of the grace of God in the Gospel. Their wants in their inner man have been changed.
    There are many people who believe in Jesus yet do not obey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    This is especially interesting in view of how Paul talks to Judaizers in Gal 5 who were all about such compulsion. On themselves and on others.
    Jesus said the pharisees did not obey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    Notice the twin problem of the flesh 5:19: not only the list of things it does wrong, but that those are called works (don't we usually refer to religious observances and tradition-keeping as 'works', 'works of the law'? so what is it doing here?!!!)
    There are different kinds of works. There are sinful works. There is doing good and that is called works; and, then there is what is called the works of the law. The works of the law is the purification/ceremonial works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post

    Try to find things to agree on; you sound like you won't know what to do with yourself if there is agreement, like you have to find a disagreement.
    That is not true. However, I believe in the double-edged sword dividing even the soul and the spirit. Why should I let something false just go? We are in a discussion group.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

  12. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Part of what you said in those first and second paragraphs there is not necessarily an automatic.

    There are many in whom Gal. 2:20's "who loved me and gave himself for me" obviously does not necessarily automatically result in Gal. 5:6's "faith: which worketh by love."

    Many often evidence instead a kind of "He loved me and mine: died for me and mine; not for you and yours."

    And the Galatians may have started out wonderfully, but may have ended up otherwise.

    Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

    The "fruit of the Spirit" - "love" -is not necessarily an automatic in each individual, as that is largely a function of upbringing.

    Be it that of their upbringing before they were saved, and or that plus whatever upbringing they have, or have not had by the gospel itself after salvation, along with each their decision to walk in said instruction, once received.

    Paul's writings, for example, evidences much of each.

    We read of people in his writings (1) who were simply noble people before they were saved; and of (2) people who changed only after they were saved; and of (3) people who still needed much changing for the better, or "as becometh the gospel" long after they'd been saved.

    And we read of much instruction in, and of the need to consciously work on, bringing one's state up to the high level of one's standing in the Lord.

    As with the Bereans of Acts 17.

    Their being "more noble than those at Thessalonica" is the issue of how they as lost people had at first received the news that that Jesus Who had been Crucified, really had been the Christ.

    Their nobility of mind is mentioned in contrast to that of those at Thessalonica: who instead of at least having at first "received the word with all readiness of mind" became more than a bit hostile towards Paul.

    As with any of the other fruits of the Spirit, the love motivated is as much a function of its resulting impact on the individual, as it is of the individual's impact on it, that is to say, it is a function of what each person brings to the table as a result of their particular personality.

    You can see this in how those on here who dislike you and or your assertions, treat or mistreat you.

    Obviously, where each sees the role of agape when dealing with some one opposed to their views, differs in each.

    This, in turn, says something about where each is in each their having been instructed in same by the gospel itself, or not, as well as where each is in their actual walking in said instruction.

    Again, what one often finds in the infamous Religious Right is just that - religion.

    Which is the issue of legalism.

    Of Performance Based Acceptance of others.

    In such, their relationship with the Lord is much like that of a symbiosis.

    Wherein any "love" extended towards others functions from within a kind of a narcissism that is then extended out only to those one concludes speaks one's language, or that one has concluded is a part of one, in some way.

    Its result being a double-standard.

    A kind of "this standard here is for me and mine; this other standard here is for those not of our number."

    Sort of like how in the extreme of that, the genocidal villain nevertheless has tears for those he considers his own.

    Obviously, these various kinds of things had been the same kinds of issues the Apostle Paul had frequently encountered way back in th 1st Century; for he certainly invests a great deal of time having to address them - in saved people.

    Galatians 5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

    1 Thessalonians 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

    And so on...
    You bring up some very interesting things. However, I do think that you are missing the point; and that is that we have to obey.


    Paul had to FORM CHRIST IN the Galatians all over again.

    That is something very serious.

    He also told the Galatians that if they do not obey the gospel---Christ would be of NO VALUE to them.

    Paul warns the Thessalonians to STAY AWAY from a sinning brother.

    Paul told the Corinthians they should throw someone out.

    He told some stubborn unrepentant Romans in church that they were storing up wrath.


    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post

    The answer to it all?

    Remembering the truth of Romans 5:8.
    The answer is to obey, to train ourselves, to spur each other on to obey.

    That scripture from Romans is not what you say it is. That scripture in Romans is about how Jesus did not make the Gentiles get circumcised in the flesh before he would save them.

    The Jews dealt with their sin condition by doing the ceremonial works---but the Gentiles were dead in their sins because they did not do the ceremonial works.

    Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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