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Thread: creation vs evolution

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truster View Post
    Are you just being stupid for comedic effect?
    You wrote that you knew something but it was not your knowledge then you tried to explain that inconsistency away by making a reference to a gift. You need to explain that better if someone is to understand what you mean. You wrote "I know exactly how the heavens and the earth became. Nearly 7,000 years ago." How did you come to "know" that despite the fact that your did not acquire that knowledge by "any means of your own"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason69 View Post
    Is there another way of explaining how this universe came about without believing in God?
    There are only two choices.
    1) Nothing caused everything
    2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    But you said "I know exactly..." so your knowledge. Otherwise you don't know. Same way as it is your knowledge that lets you use your computer and internet.



    Jonah what is your word, then, for information from an ancient source which you have reason to believe is revealed from God (a higher, infinite, person)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    There are only two choices.
    1) Nothing caused everything
    2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.
    third choice: We dont really know what caused everything. I know that the possibility of not knowing gives you a rash, but there we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    Jonah what is your word, then, for information from an ancient source which you have reason to believe is revealed from God (a higher, infinite, person)?
    Since I do not believe there is such a person, I guess my word would be "who cares" or perhaps "nonsense".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    third choice: We dont really know what caused everything. I know that the possibility of not knowing gives you a rash, but there we are.




    But we do know quite a bit about Jonah, that narrows it down. Who ever did it made the cochlea work the first time, and a million other first time successes, calling for an infinite amount of design and production. There is no problem about this in the Christian view, because it says 'He spoke...and it came into being.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    But we do know quite a bit about Jonah, that narrows it down. Who ever did it made the cochlea work the first time, and a million other first time successes, calling for an infinite amount of design and production. There is no problem about this in the Christian view, because it says 'He spoke...and it came into being.'
    I suggest you read "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin. My recollection is that he discusses the cochlea. And there is not reason for the cochlea or any other body part to work the first time. In a sense that is the mechanism of evolution. Trial and error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    I suggest you read "Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin. My recollection is that he discusses the cochlea. And there is not reason for the cochlea or any other body part to work the first time. In a sense that is the mechanism of evolution. Trial and error.



    There are a million reasons for them not to work in the situations and environments that uniformitarian evolution says they were in, like my goats eating rhododendron which is poisonous to them. Or the wrong amount of oxygen in a chicken egg before the chick can peck out.

    Denial of design no longer seems very popular among scientists, they would rather move on a say 'OK, there is design, but there are many 'mistakes' and we will fix them.'

    To really do philosophy properly, every option must be on the table until shown otherwise. An infinite and personal deity would be one of those options, the person speaking-into-existence in finished, working, reproducing form in Genesis.
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    LIFETIME MEMBER MichaelCadry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jason69 View Post
    Does believing in evolution mean that you cant believe in creation?

    Dear jason69,

    What is this? A rehash of my old thread? We know that there is only One God Who created/made the Universe, and the Earth, and the Sun, and the Moon. And Man, and Woman. Why do you try to make it difficult?? There is and never was any evolution. God did it all, and by Him altering genes or RNA, or even atoms and nuclei/protons, etc., He created all that He had in His Imagination according to what He wanted to create. Evolution didn't do all of that. God made the chicken hen and rooster of a mature age, instead of just creating an egg, which would be younger indeed. So what came first, the chicken or the egg? Well, the chicken first of course, who had to be given the seed inside itself to procreate by a rooster that He also created. Male and female He created the chicken; rooster and hen. And God created man not as a baby, but instead an aged youth/man. If God wants to create an aged Universe and Earth, what is That To You???!! Our God Did!! Get it through your heads!! Man's stupid aging techniques beg for truthfulness. They are the imagination of men who seek to corrupt the minds of men and women. Their science is found wanting. And I was also told that Jesus is returning extremely soon, but don't ask me for the date. Only God knows that. I can't wait for Him to return and I am always in great joy as I wait!!

    It's All Plausible! God Speaks, It Is!!

    Michael
    www.jesusreturningverysoon.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    We dont really know what caused everything.
    You might have a difficult time deciding, but there are still only 2 possibilities.
    1) Nothing caused everything
    2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    You might have a difficult time deciding, but there are still only 2 possibilities.
    1) Nothing caused everything
    2) Something which existed eternally caused everything.


    More to the point, the raw, toxic primal conditions supposed by uniformitarian evolution are no place for amazing and delicate creatures to start. A hummingbird has no second chance if the proboscis does not work perfectly the first time. All pollination has to have bee systems working perfectly with it, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    More to the point, the raw, toxic primal conditions supposed by uniformitarian evolution are no place for amazing and delicate creatures to start. A hummingbird has no second chance if the proboscis does not work perfectly the first time. All pollination has to have bee systems working perfectly with it, etc.
    You do not understand the basics of evolutionary theory. Trial and error, things do not need to work the first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    You do not understand the basics of evolutionary theory. Trial and error, things do not need to work the first time.




    But they did work. this is the evidence from observing these guys at work now. You simply extrapolate back and realize that there is no time for other forms to work and no conditions. See the list of systems anomalies on THE PRIVILEGED PLANET. The 0s it takes to express the odds for success for the combined rarity of life on earth is longer than one line here in the reply form!

    If you had a tape measure from here to the sun, and a marker for the force of gravity, you could not adjust the marker more than 1/2" either direction, or things would go chaotic here on earth. At the same time, the hummingbird proboscis needs to work, the bees need to get to the 'right' plants, kidd goats cannot eat rhododenton, and cochlea cannot be over used or they shatter--all at the same time.

    So far as I know the guy who headed up the genome project said the opposite of your last line.

    In evolution you essentially have a math formula that says rate x time = product. But they have loaded the time with tons of 0s instead of the rate. That is total assumption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    No, and Science admits this. 50% of scientists say they don't believe in God, but they also say that they cannot say how the universe got started.
    Science posits the 'Big Bang Theory' as their answer to 'how' the Universe was started. The gist of the theory is a random singularity of some sort ( a point of infinite density.....) just exploded one day and up popped the universe, the cosmos, the planets, stars life and everything else in it. The sheer absurdity of this theory is difficult to put into words and in my opinion raises far more questions than answers. But i believe it is taught as mainstream theory now if not mainstream 'fact' as Science has proven that the Universe is expanding which i believe is also the main basis for this theorys adoption in scientific circles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

    Somewhat ironic that religion requires faith and yet Science seems to require blind faith from its believers...
    John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfCaleb View Post
    Science posits the 'Big Bang Theory' as their answer to 'how' the Universe was started. The gist of the theory is a random singularity of some sort ( a point of infinite density.....) just exploded one day and up popped the universe, the cosmos, the planets, stars life and everything else in it. The sheer absurdity of this theory is difficult to put into words and in my opinion raises far more questions than answers. But i believe it is taught as mainstream theory now if not mainstream 'fact' as Science has proven that the Universe is expanding which i believe is also the main basis for this theorys adoption in scientific circles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

    Somewhat ironic that religion requires faith and yet Science seems to require blind faith from its believers...
    do you have any evidence that the universe is not expanding?

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