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Thread: creation vs evolution

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    LIFETIME MEMBER MichaelCadry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    The result seems to be the same. Reality vs. a specific theological need.
    Ah, Jonahdog, always trying to come back with a rebuttal as long as it is the opposite. I see that the Specific Theological Need is really The Reality!! You haven't been included in the Secret. God didn't include you for who knows why. Those who oppose you though, God has helped them know The Truth!!

    Someone help your sorry soul before the time is upon us.

    Also, this thread is a copy of Patrick Jane's thread except his Creation and Evolution was capitalized. What a travesty!!

    Michael
    www.jesusreturningverysoon.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    OK, and I am sure you base that position on your extensive scientific background, not just on the thoughts of some wackadoodle AiG "scientist".



    It's hard to respect you when his bibliography is around 50 pieces, but go ahead and mock that too. Are you always just a blanket-statement kind of guy or do you actually read for detail?

    The fact that the lower elements are strewn with 'loess' is substantial enough. The cataclysm view is how the thousands of Siberian/northern mammoths deaths are explained (standing, eating, same group polar orientation, etc). They died in 'loess' which became permafrost. The ice age was that short and abrupt.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    It's hard to respect you when his bibliography is around 50 pieces, but go ahead and mock that too. Are you always just a blanket-statement kind of guy or do you actually read for detail?

    The fact that the lower elements are strewn with 'loess' is substantial enough. The cataclysm view is how the thousands of Siberian/northern mammoths deaths are explained (standing, eating, same group polar orientation, etc). They died in 'loess' which became permafrost. The ice age was that short and abrupt.
    I'm not sure exactly who you mean, but if you wish to evaluate someone's science based on the amount they published you are likely to lose big time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    I'm not sure exactly who you mean, but if you wish to evaluate someone's science based on the amount they published you are likely to lose big time.


    I meant the biblography he drew upon... Your blanket statement considers all sources there 'wackadoodle.'
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    Speaking of bibliographies:






    DELUGE OF SUSPICIONS
    Life is as unpredictable as ancient geology

    A short novel by Marcus Sanford



    Combined Background Resources and Glossary
    Marcus Sanford, ask@interplans.net


    Ager, D. THE NATURE OF THE STRATIGRAPHICAL PROCESS. A peer scientist disputes Lyell's basis for uniformitarianism by evidence about rapid deposition and the Epeiric sea over north America.

    Ager, D. NEW CATASTROPHISM.

    Armour, R. North American Indian Fairy Tales, Folklore and Legends, (1905). Ojibwe legend of Nanabohzo.

    Appearance of Design. The recognition even by Dawkins that the earth and its occupants seem to be here and formed to be here by design.

    Baugh, C. PRE-FLOOD ARTIFACT DEVASTATES UNIFORMITARIANISM. Youtube. A hammer made of sophisticated metal from England in a 'strata' where it does not 'belong.'

    Baugh, C. THE WORLD AND MANKIND BEFORE THE FLOOD. Youtube. “Bizz-artifacts” of the ancient world re longevity, giantism.

    Baumgardner, J. CATASTROPHIC PLATE TECTONICS; the key to understanding the Genesis Flood. Youtube.

    "Biblical-Type Floods Are Real, and They're Absolutely Enormous" DiscoverMagazine.com. 2012-08-29.

    Boudreaux. NEW THEORY FOR THE PRE-FLOOD CANOPY re sugilite, a trace mineral found all over the earth's surface. Youtube.

    Bretz, J H. 1920s. Geologic catastrophism in connection with Lake Missoula.

    Brown, W. (various titles on the deluge and anomalies left around the world by it, but usually written apart from tectonic theory). Former DOD logistician.

    Carbera, Dr. A Peruvian surgeon who located a human skull in tertiary material with dinosaurs.

    CENTRALIA THEORY. A newer catastrophic view that the entire central 80% of Australia is a rapid deposit sedimentary zone as part of a global event.

    Chima Channels, Peru. Advanced water supply systems that moved water 150 miles in 'primitive' times.

    Clark, E. INDIAN LEGENDS OF THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST. One of the best collections. The great flood is a frequent subject.

    Clemens, J. Research on granitic magmatism. Geologist Association of London.

    Coconino. The layer of sandstone at Grand Canyon that is from northeast north America.

    Cooper, B. AFTER THE FLOOD.

    CREATION. A recent production about the domestic and social factors that mattered while Darwin wrote ORIGINS.

    Creationwiki.com. 8700 articles.

    Crone, B. IN THE DAYS OF NOAH. Giants, Ancient Technology and Noah's Ark. Part 2: A Glorious Civilization. A very complete collection of archeological and geological anomalies, however, some examples did not have to do with the Genesis flood as such, simply other artefact anomalies.

    DARWIN'S DILEMMA. Illustra Media. Even with a major flaw in the system, Darwin proceeded—or could not stop Huxley from pushing it out to the public now that the theory had “geological” support from Lyell and Hutton.

    Dona, K. ARTEFACTS FROM PRE-FLOOD WORLD & FALLEN ANGELS. Pres. By Habsburg Haus curator. Youtube. “Bizz-artefacts” of the ancient world.

    Epeiric Sea. The worldwide ancient sea as referred to in scientific literature, to which Pangaea (one single continent) was the counterpart.

    Farellian Law of Chance. 1:1 (50th) is the point of impossibility. Most of the critical doctrines of evolution and uniformitarianism are dependent on much less favorable odds.

    FINDING NOAH. Oct.8.2015 limited screening documentary.

    Geo-mythology. The science of connecting ancient myth to its location's fossils or artefacts.

    Giem, P. IS PLUTO YOUNG? Youtube.

    GILGAMESH EPIC. Babylonian flood account as part of a search for eternal life after offending a female deity. Only Utnapushtim has eternal life; he responded to deity instructions to build a huge ship, titled The Preserver of Life, and survive a flood that would otherwise destroy all life. He took his family, village craftsmen, and baby
    animals.

    Guthrie. FROZEN FAUNA... Research on the plant life around the time and place of the huge numbers of frozen mammoths.

    Hancock, G. FINGERPRINTS OF THE GODS. Former ECONOMIST correspondent compiles all the archeological and geological anomalies which orthodox science simply won't mention in public.

    Haynes. MAMMOTHS... Research on the thousands of mammoths in permafrost.

    Hovind, K. FLOOD OF NOAH. Youtube. Hundreds of flood legends around the world. Hovind tends to wander off topic.

    Hovind, K. THOUSANDS OF DRAGON LEGENDS AROUND THE WORLD. Youtube. Hovind tends to wander off topic.

    Howorth, 1887. Early research on mammoths unable to explain the huge numbers found in permafrost.

    Hippolytus. Ancient Greek historian who described worldwide flood as consisting of water from below, and fire and earthquakes.

    James-Griffiths, P. TRACING GENESIS THROUGH ANCIENT CULTURE. Youtube. Extensive and well-illustrated comparative legend and literature. Two British antiquities curators explain why Genesis is the literary source of the numerous world accounts of cataclysms.

    Jenkins Collection. A huge collection of Naszca materials that was extremely difficult to access for many years. See Naval Observatory of Peru.

    Job 9. 'God moves and overturns mountains.'

    Johnson, C. THE PRE-FLOOD WORLD: CREATION AND CANOPY. Youtube.

    Langdell. Doctor of Law appointed at Harvard in 1879 primarily because he used ORIGIN OF SPECIES concepts and language to reshape American law.

    LIVING WATERS. See nrbtv (Direct 378). This is a rich photoessay against several aspects of Darwinism.

    Lewis, C. S. GOD IN THE DOCK. Among these essays, besides the one featured here, “The Myth That Became Fact” is a complete statement as to why we should expect near-replica accounts from all the ancient cultures that are 'memories' of what actually happened. Simply for the reason that it actually happened!

    Lyell. Mid-1800s scientist who developed the idea of uniformitarianism 'to free geology from Moses.'

    THE MAN WHO FOUND TIME. Re Hutton (mid-1700s) and the first attempts to state the view that there are vast amounts of time manifested on earth.

    Mayr, E. THE NATURE OF THE DARWINIAN REVOLUTION.

    Mayor, A. Folklorist and geomythologist. Her hypothesis was that seashells and marine fossils found inland and on mountains inspired worldwide flood legends.

    Mial, A. (research on failures of uniformitariansm) Springer International Publishing.

    Naval Observatory of Peru. One of the current locations of the former Jenkins collections of Nazsca stones and artefacts, along with the Aeronautical Museum of Peru.

    National Geographic Society. (100 mammoths at Hot Springs, South Dakota).

    Noa A Gomshi. Translation: Noah's Huge Boat. The local name for the Ararat area.

    Noorberger, R. SECRETS OF THE LOST RACES. Peruvian and other evidence shows a very different world before a global deluge.

    NOVA. Making North America. Nov. 2015. The usual uniformitarianism but only about north America and its dinosaurs. Metal particles sprayed around when an asteroid struck. “Every layer we see used to be the surface of the earth” in perfectly predictable order (!).

    Nurre, P. EGYPTIAN CHRONOLOGY AND THE BIBLE. Nwcreation.net. Comparing new archeology with Biblical record.

    Oard, M. THE LAKE MISSOULA FLOOD. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. This event echos the Genesis flood and demonstrates what happens when a half-continent floods.

    Oard, M. WHAT HAPPENED TO WOOLLY MAMMOTHS? Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Newest research on the thousands of mammoths frozen upright in permafrost, 'drowning' in loess.

    Ocucaje village. Peruvian village where many of the sketched burial stones were found. Samples of methods of preserving human flesh. Excavated in 1950 by Solde. Patination confirmed by the University of Bonn.

    Opisthotonic. The feature of many fossils which appear to have been pressed, flattened, or smashed by abrupt overwhelming force against a rock surface.

    Physico-theologians. Those pastors and professors in the 1800s who believed God originated and sustained each organism on a micro level, but not in a pantheistic
    sense. 'In all life Thou livest / the true life of all.' Sometimes the view sounded quaint, but it was sheer skepticism and a desire for another outcome, not facts, that ridiculed it.

    Pluto's mountains. A critical dating item which has lead in part to removing Pluto from the planet list because they are 'too young.'

    Prescott, W. THE CONQUEST OF PERU. Early data on advanced civilization and young creation.

    Psalm 104. The creation psalm with a few verses on the deluge, if not on Gen 1:2.

    Psalm 136. The earth is set on top of water.

    SATAPATHA BRAHMANA. The Hindu version of the great flood. The 1st man Manu is warned of impending flood and advised to build a giant boat.

    Schaeffer, F. GENESIS IN SPACE AND TIME. A bit dated on some information, but mentioned the extensive accounts of massive flooding among South American peoples.

    Siccar Point, Scotland. This site is contested as a clinching site by both uniformitarians and Biblical creation/deluge believers.

    Silvestru, E. GEOLOGY AND DEEP TIME. Youtube. Vertical tectonics, rapid sedimentary deposits by a highly-trained ex-uniformitarian.

    SHA NAQBA IMURU. Ancient Bablylonian text containing GILGAMESH EPIC. The title means “He who saw the deep.” (Deep = the unfathomable waters, oceans).

    Snelling, A. WORLDWIDE FLOOD; GEOLOGIC EVIDENCE. Youtube. Demonstrates some calculations of how hundreds of feet of sediment could have been transferred 2000 miles.

    Steno, N. Mid-1600s 'father of geology' and his Biblical basis.

    Stratigraphy. The 'account' of earth history in the layers or strata of geology.

    Superfault. A location where the mantle is known to have buckled between 100-10,000 meters in one moment.

    Tihuanaca, Peru. Gateway to the Sun construction; metal staples to connect massive stones; temples similar to those in Cambodia; earthquake protection that has worked; universal ethnicity in the facial carvings; jade used in carvings is from China.

    Timeaus. Plato's account of a flood over the whole earth. A Titan named
    Prometheus tells Deucalion it is coming, who prepares and survives it.

    Titikaka., Peru. Native boats memorialize sea-monster accounts.

    Tolmachoff. 1929. Studies on woolly mammoths as anomalies.

    Vereshagin. MAMMOTH CEMETERIES. Research on cause of death of thousands of mammoths in permafrost.

    Uniformitarianism. The view that there has been no creation of or interaction by a deity (god) with our universe. It is entirely a matter of ordinary scientific laws and events.

    Walker, T. (THE GENESIS DELUGE). Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015. Worldwide samples of tectonic upheaval and sedimentary transfer.

    Walker, T. MEGA-CATASTROPHE. Nwcreation.net Seattle creation conference 2015.

    Wallace, A. NEW THOUGHTS ON EVOLUTION. 1910 critique of where it was headed. Material on Haeckl.

    Waltke, B. CREATION AND CHAOS. Study of ancient near east legend to show how Genesis 1's mission is to declare that the LORD is the redemptive-creator.

    Ward. CALL OF THE DISTANT MOUNTAINS. Research on the anomalies of woolly mammoths.

    Wikipedia. Final introductory quote about Genesis flood: “A world-wide deluge, such as described in Genesis, is incompatible with modern understanding of the natural history and especially geology and paleontology.” (!)

    Wilberforce, W. English politician and evangelical Christian who helped end slavery in England in the early 1800s and wrote a criticism of upper class life and Christianity for its attempt to preserve slavery. To preserve race superiority, evolutionary doctrines were accepted, on both sides of the Channel.

    Woodman. NASZCA; JOURNEY TO THE SEA. The scope of their balloon technology was similar to Kon Tiki and the sea.

    Ziusudra Epic. Sumerian. The preflood kings lived enormous life spans. After the flood their lifespan is normal.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Mammoth tooth, and the big deal is what?



    The UW's paleontogist's remark forces me to go with the youngest date possible. He said they will start separating unless stored perfectly, yet here is a supposed 19K old piece that is still intact. From Biblical, Mayan and geologic evidence, we can say that the cataclysm was about 4500 years ago followed by a short ice age.
    All Lives Matter --Marcus Sanford, youtube.com

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    Over 4000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    The result seems to be the same. Reality vs. a specific theological need.
    OK. So you have no answer. Have a nice day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
    I meant the biblography he drew upon... Your blanket statement considers all sources there 'wackadoodle.'
    I am not sure who you are talking about. Whose bibliography?

    And that list of sources you cited? Once you claim any value based on Walt Brown or Kent Hovind you might as will use my dog, Jonah, as a source. He is pretty bright but has difficulty understanding concepts beyond "Where's the ball?" and "Food, food, food".
    Last edited by Jonahdog; May 19th, 2017 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    OK. So you have no answer. Have a nice day.
    No answer to what question?

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    Over 4000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    No answer to what question?
    If there is such a thing as Evolution, then how come the oldest living life forms never evolved?

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    Interplanner;

    A few books I would like to recommend to you, as well as my opinion on each.

    Behe, Michael "Darwin's Black Box." The scientific approach also includes data and notes collected by Darwin (hence the name). This book is big on the Theory of Infinite Complexity.

    Berlinski, David "the Devil's Delusion." An excellent book at highlighting philosophical, theological, and scientific errors within atheist reasoning.

    Wells, Jonathan "Icons of Evolution." It is great for providing scientific evidence against many of the traditional images and icons of evolution, utilized to demonstrate it as "fact."

    Granted, these books are not perfect. I have issues with each (scientifically, philosophically, and theologically), yet they provide very accurate evidence that demonstrates logical flaws and fallacies present in atheist and evolutionist arguments/claims.

    Hope you enjoy them.


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    If there is such a thing as Evolution, then how come the oldest living life forms never evolved?
    Perhaps because their environment did not change enough to put enough selection pressure on the population.
    Based on that question, do you accept the fact that other life forms did evolve?

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    Over 4000 post club CherubRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Perhaps because their environment did not change enough to put enough selection pressure on the population.
    Based on that question, do you accept the fact that other life forms did evolve?
    It is a presumption that life evolved and not a fact Jonah. Everyone agrees that life forms have a limited adaptability capabilities, but none leave their basic form. There is a multitude of life forms that have been around since the beginning that have never changed. That in its self is proof that life on this planet did not evolve. The missing links are missing because life did not evolve in this Universe.

    Isaiah 43:10. "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD (Yahwah), "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He. Before me no god formed, nor will there be one after me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
    [SIZE=3]It is a presumption that life evolved and not a fact Jonah. Everyone agrees that life forms have a limited adaptability capabilities, but none leave their basic form. There is a multitude of life forms that have been around since the beginning that have never changed. That in its self is proof that life on this planet did not evolve. The missing links are missing because life did not evolve in this Universe.
    Let me try to understand your logic here. In a prior post you listed a # of species that have been around for millions of years. The one I am most familiar with is the horseshoe crab, Limulus polyphemus, the one here on the east coast of the US. There appear to be 3 other species in other parts of the world by the way. But lets stick with L. polyphemus. Your position is that since they have been around for 445 +/- million years, that is proof that evolution has not occurred.

    To start I am glad we don't have to fight over whether the earth is 6000 years old. But the first question is where did the first L. polyphemus come from lo those many years ago? Did it evolve from something else or did it just appear on the scene fully created by some outside entity?

  17. #240
    Silver Member patrick jane's Avatar
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    Life is amazing and cannot be explained by science - God created it
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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