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Thread: Trump Tax Reform

  1. #91
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    Been reading some news about the tax proposals and it seems hard to pin down where people will fall.



    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/se...insurance-loss
    — Many families making less than $30,000 a year would face tax increases starting in 2021 under the Senate bill, according to Congress’ nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation. By 2027, families earning less than $75,000 would see their tax bills rise while those making more would enjoy reductions, the analysts find. The individual income-tax reductions in the Senate bill would end in 2026.



    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...nefit-n2410519
    Even the liberal Tax Policy Center's analysis -- which found that the benefits aren't as middle-class centric -- determined that "the legislation would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in 2018 and 2027"


    That's right: About 70 percent of all US taxpayers currently take the standard deduction, which would approximately double under the House-passed bill. So right out of the gate, the vast majority of American taxpayers already stand to benefit from the bill. Analysts predict that if the standard deduction increases dramatically, the percentage of filers who claim it (i.e., eschewing itemizing) will rise to the ballpark of 90 percent. A liberal activist on Twitter objected to my argument above, reasoning that some number of the new additions to the standard-deduction-taking ranks would still be worse off than they would be under the current system. I replied by thanking him for confirming that at a minimum, somewhere between 70 and 90 percent of all Americans will be winners under the Republican proposal

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...-jobs-act/full
    The Tax Policy Center has produced preliminary distributional estimates of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Actas introduced on November 3, 2017.We findthe legislation would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in 2018and 2027.The largest cuts,in dollars and as a percentage of after-tax income,would accrue to higher-income households.However, not all taxpayers would receive a tax cutunder this proposal—at least 7 percent of taxpayers would pay higher taxes under the proposal in 2018 and at least25percent of taxpayers would pay more in 2027.

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  3. #92
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    Alternatives to the GOP plans.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-plan-gop-mess
    The Republican tax bill is far, far, far worse than it had to be





    Suppose Republicans wanted an across-the-board tax cut that helped both middle-class and rich people. They could’ve simply cut the 10 percent tax bracket to 8 percent, or that plus cut the 15 percent bracket to 12 percent. That helps middle- and upper-class people (though not the poor) and creates no losers. If they wanted to conform to Senate rules, they could have it all expire after eight or 10 years, just as the current legislation does. If they wanted to make it permanent, and cared deeply enough, they could’ve gone nuclear on the filibuster and passed a permanent cut with 51 votes.

    But Republicans also want a lower, permanent corporate tax rate. Also doable: You can finance substantial rate cuts by removing tax breaks from the corporate code. Robert Pozen at Harvard Business School has estimated that eliminating the deductibility of interest payments on corporate debt would enable a cut in the corporate rate from 35 percent to 15 percent. If you wanted to, at the same time, allow 100 percent deductibility of all investments at the time they’re made, the rate would have to go up somewhat. But you could definitely cut the corporate rate, and pay for it permanently, by eliminating certain deductions and broadening the base. You don’t have to raise taxes or take away health care from middle-class people.

    Republicans have grander aspirations than that, however. If you read the “Better Way” tax framework released by House Speaker Paul Ryan and House Ways and Means Chair Kevin Brady in 2016, you’ll see page after page of arguments for transitioning away from taxing income to taxing consumption. A lot of economists agree with that goal, even progressive ones (though others insist taxing consumption is inherently regressive).

    Luckily there’s a plan in Congress that achieves that goal, is revenue-neutral, and doesn’t raise taxes on the poor or middle class. It’s Sen. Ben Cardin’s (D-MD) Progressive Consumption Tax Act. Cardin would exempt the first $100,000 of income for couples from income tax ($50,000 for singles, $75,000 for single parents), meaning that the vast majority of people would no longer pay income taxes. He'd consolidate rates to three — 15, 25, and 28 percent — and cut the corporate tax to 17 percent. That's a lower top individual rate, and a lower corporate rate, than the Senate is proposing. To pay for it, he'd introduce a value-added tax, the kind of consumption tax used in most other rich countries, and add a rebate so that poor people don’t see their taxes go up.

    The plan, based on a proposal by Columbia tax law professor Michael Graetz, accomplishes basically all of Republicans’ substantive tax reform goals. It lowers income tax rates, and dramatically lowers the corporate tax. By exempting the majority of Americans from income taxes, it reduces the importance of deductions and credits. And it shifts the tax burden to consumption by adding a VAT.

    But unlike the Senate or House tax bills, it doesn’t increase the deficit, and it’s not regressive. The Tax Policy Center modeled the Graetz plan back in 2013 with a VAT rate of 12.9 percent, and slightly tweaked individual tax brackets (14, 27, and 31). TPC found that it would cost $0. It’s completely revenue-neutral. And it's progressive. The top 0.1 percent would see their income fall by 0.9 percent, and the poorest fifth would see their income grow by 1.2 percent.

    If Republicans really want to give needy people a tax cut while shifting the tax code to consumption and lowering individual and corporate tax rates, there’s your plan. You can work with Cardin on putting together a passable version right now.

    Perhaps a VAT is too dramatic a step. I have a plan for then, too! Senate Finance Committee ranking member Ron Wyden has for years put out bipartisan tax reform plans, first with Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) and then with Sen. Dan Coats (R-IN), who have both since left the body. The plan sets a top rate of 35 percent, lowers the corporate tax rate to 24 percent, and, according to a 2010 analysis from the Tax Policy Center, would have made the tax code slightly more progressive. That analysis came before some of the high-income Bush tax cuts were revived, so the effect relative to today's laws would be different. But it’s a model for a way to cut corporate rates and simplify the code while not making the tax code more regressive.


  4. #93
    TOL Legend The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Are you ceding such massive power to the dems that they needn't even control a single branch of government in order to hold sway?
    The problem is that while the republicans hold the presidency and both houses of Congress, the American people are completely disgusted with all of them. So they're afraid of passing some of the crazier things the brown shirt faction of the party is tossing up.

    Add that to the fact that the republicans have had years of doing nothing but posturing and passing legislation they knew would not become law, and the result is a party too extreme to compromise and too weak to govern.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  5. #94
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/22/16691016/economists-gop-tax-plan-igm-poll

    Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy
    But all of them think it will increase the debt.

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    Right, the only fair tax cut plan is one where low income persons always get a tax break. The wealthy people will get a big break on corporate tax cuts alone, since most wealthy persons are invested in the market.

    I would be more than satisfied with the corporate tax cuts and have no problem paying near as much personal tax as long as the new tax code is more simple and fair to the most needy.

    Most truly honest persons will admit to some selfishness, but being too selfish is morally vacant.

    One part of the tax bill is loss of home mortgage deductions, yet this mostly effects wealthy people.

    The main criticize of the current tax plan is some persons will be placed in higher tax brackets and this will not do!
    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Christian theology isn't to be in Christ.


    So, what?

    believe it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/22/16691016/economists-gop-tax-plan-igm-poll

    Out of 42 top economists, only 1 believes the GOP tax bills would help the economy
    But all of them think it will increase the debt.
    Its a good plan, but it needs spending cuts to make it work. Trump doesn't acknowledge this along with that Kentucky libtard McConnell. So this assessment looks about right.
    “But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to every one who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.” 1st Peter 3:15

    I find your lack of faith disturbing!

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  11. #97
    Over 5000 post club rexlunae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    No more death tax !!!
    Are you going to inherit or leave a $5 million+ estate? Because, if the answer is 'no', this doesn't effect you.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

  12. #98
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...n-budget-model
    New dynamic score shows the Senate tax bill raises debt by more than advertised



    For years, Republicans have hinted that they would ultimately enact a tax plan by engaging in dynamic scoring — i.e., a form of economic analysis that tries to argue tax cuts will boost economic growth and therefore tax collection and therefore be more affordable than they appear in a static context.

    Yet curiously, the Trump Treasury Department has not yet produced a dynamic analysis of the president’s pet legislative project. The most likely reason for this is that the last time we had a Republican administration and its Treasury Department tried to do a rigorous dynamic analysis, they found that they couldn’t make it work. The growth-boosting impact of lower marginal tax rates was largely offset by the growth-slowing impact of more government borrowing. To generate a scenario in which tax cutting boosted growth, the George W. Bush Treasury had to invoke the idea of a tax plan that was offset by large, unspecified spending cuts.

    There’s no reason to believe an honest Treasury analysis of the Trump tax plan would show anything different.


  13. #99
    Silver Member kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Its a good plan, but it needs spending cuts to make it work. Trump doesn't acknowledge this along with that Kentucky libtard McConnell. So this assessment looks about right.
    The article I just posted says that spending cuts are necessary to make it work as well, even with dynamic scoring.

  14. #100
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    Latest Report: No vote tonight.
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    Trump's would be massive tax reform and wide scale deregulation will do for the super wealthy; the wealthy and the would be wealthy what Reagan's massive tax reforms and equally wide deregulation did for all three.

    But on steroids, cocain, speed, and the heady acid trip it will all result in...as it all heads for the greatest financial collapse in the history of the U.S. since The Great Depression, as greed and corruption are given the unbridled reign only a Donald Trump could unleash on our beloved nation.

    And countless many of the wealthy and the would be wealthy, will find themselves having completely ensnared themselves in absolute financial ruin.

    But until this, last, even now being written chapter in "Trump: The Deals, The Downfall" the gravy train will be pretty sweet for the already well and would be well off.

    Think I'll get in on some of that and invest in a chain of Smorgasbord restaurants with the poster Sqeaky - few on here can put together all sorts of things that normally do not go together, into one heck of an odd tasting meal

  16. #102
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    Sen. John Tester of Montana, 15 minutes ago:

    "I was just handed a 479-page tax bill a few hours before the vote. One page literally has hand scribbled policy changes on it that can't be read. This is Washington, D.C. at its worst..."
    So keep your candles burning

    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Passed
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    Are you going to inherit or leave a $5 million+ estate? Because, if the answer is 'no', this doesn't effect you.
    Just one of the portions of the tax bill that will cost the Trump family more money. Oh, but it won't it will ba a windfall for them.
    Of course, we cannot be really sure since he never released his tax returns.
    And it won't have any impact on his billionaire cabinet members--ah wait, another issue that will benefit them.
    And how will we pay for that lost revenue? Well, we can always cut back on dialysis funding for those without insurance---that'll help close the gap.

  19. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonahdog View Post
    Just one of the portions of the tax bill that will cost the Trump family more money. Oh, but it won't it will ba a windfall for them.
    Of course, we cannot be really sure since he never released his tax returns.
    And it won't have any impact on his billionaire cabinet members--ah wait, another issue that will benefit them.
    And how will we pay for that lost revenue? Well, we can always cut back on dialysis funding for those without insurance---that'll help close the gap.
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