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Thread: Trump Tax Reform

  1. #46
    TOL Legend patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    The problem is, they have until the 30th of September to pass the bill on a straight majority vote. After that, it won't be possible.

    So it's dead for the foreseable future.
    Nope, dunce. Reconciliation can begin anew next year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    I don't really understand why they want to collapse some of the brackets. To me more brackets are better because they will be more specific to the level of income people are making. Sure it's simpler but it seems like there are better ways to simplify.
    Their ultimate goal is a flat tax. Higher rates for the poor, lower rates for the rich, no estate tax. They think it's "fairer" somehow to have a permanent ruling class across generations.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Nope, dunce. Reconciliation can begin anew next year.
    An election year? Yeah....right. That'll go well.
    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    An election year? Yeah....right. That'll go well.
    Darn right it will MAGA !!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
    Their ultimate goal is a flat tax. Higher rates for the poor, lower rates for the rich, no estate tax. They think it's "fairer" somehow to have a permanent ruling class across generations.


    One recent study concluded that 30% of the "tax cuts" will benefit the wealthiest top 0.1% - Trump stands to get a $ billion windfall!
    Last edited by jgarden; November 8th, 2017 at 02:45 PM.

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    Will Tax Reform Increase or Limit Liberty?
    By Ron Paul
    Ron Paul Institute
    October 10, 2017

    President Trump and the congressional Republican leadership recently unveiled a tax reform “framework.” The framework has a number of provisions that will lower taxes on middle-class Americans. For example, the framework doubles the standard deduction and increases the child care tax credit. It also eliminates the alternative minimum tax (AMT). Created in the 1960s, the AMT was designed to ensure the “wealthy” did not use “loopholes” to “get out of” paying taxes. Today the AMT is mostly a means to increase taxes on the middle class.

    The framework eliminates the “death tax,” thus enabling family-owned small businesses and farms to remain family owned. It also helps the economy by lowering the corporate tax rate to 20 percent, reducing taxes on small businesses. The framework also adopts a territorial tax system, which means US companies would only pay tax on profits earned in the United States.
    However, the framework is far from a total victory for liberty. Concerns have been raised that, depending on what income levels are assigned to what tax brackets, the plan could increase taxes on many middle- and lower-income Americans! This is largely due to the framework’s elimination of most tax deductions.

    The framework also contains a stealth tax increase imposed via the chained consumer price index (chained CPI). Supporters of chained CPI clam the government is currently overstating inflation. The truth is exactly the opposite: government statistics are manipulated to understate inflation.

    Chained CPI enhances the government’s ability to lie about inflation. One way it does so is by claiming that inflation does not lower our standard of living if we can substitute cheaper goods for goods made unaffordable by inflation. So inflation does not harm you if you can’t afford a steak dinner as long as you can still buy a cheeseburger.

    Chained CPI allows the government to take maximum advantage of “bracket creep,” where individuals are pushed into higher tax brackets not because they are actually earning more money, but because inflation creates the illusion they are wealthier. In fact, by decreasing their purchasing power, inflation makes most people poorer. The inflation tax thus raises taxes on declining incomes. It is hidden and regressive, making it the most insidious of all taxes.

    Most of the framework’s problems stem from Congress’ continued refusal to offset tax cuts with spending cuts. Instead, Congress continues to increase spending, with the only real debate over whether the government should spend more on welfare or warfare.

    Pairing tax cuts with increases in federal spending and debt — and the drafters of the framework admit their plan will increase the debt by at least $2.2 trillion — means that the economic benefit from the tax cuts will be outweighed by the economic harm caused by the increase in debt. Increasing the debt also means the Federal Reserve will further devalue the dollar in order to monetize that debt. While the Republican tax and budget plans predict uninterrupted economic growth, the US economy is far more likely to undergo a major economic crisis caused by a rejection of the dollar’s world reserve currency status.

    While all supporters of individual liberty and sound economics should support tax cuts, the Republicans’ failure to cut spending means that their tax plan will do little to increase liberty or prosperity. Instead of increasing debt, eliminating deductions, and relying on the inflation tax to “pay for tax cuts,” Congress should cut two dollars in spending on the military-industrial complex and other forms of corporate welfare for every dollar in tax cuts. Cutting both taxes and spending is the only way to protect prosperity and liberty.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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  11. #52
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    The dems dust off their old playbook and lie about the tax plan. Dems basically tell Americans they are too stupid to see whether it's good or bad so we'll tell you it's bad for the middle class. You're deplorable and can't see for yourselves.
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  12. #53
    Over 4000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
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    Pairing tax cuts with increases in federal spending and debt — and the drafters of the framework admit their plan will increase the debt by at least $2.2 trillion — means that the economic benefit from the tax cuts will be outweighed by the economic harm caused by the increase in debt. Increasing the debt also means the Federal Reserve will further devalue the dollar in order to monetize that debt. While the Republican tax and budget plans predict uninterrupted economic growth, the US economy is far more likely to undergo a major economic crisis caused by a rejection of the dollar’s world reserve currency status.

    While all supporters of individual liberty and sound economics should support tax cuts, the Republicans’ failure to cut spending means that their tax plan will do little to increase liberty or prosperity. Instead of increasing debt, eliminating deductions, and relying on the inflation tax to “pay for tax cuts,” Congress should cut two dollars in spending on the military-industrial complex and other forms of corporate welfare for every dollar in tax cuts. Cutting both taxes and spending is the only way to protect prosperity and liberty.



    Yup...
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  13. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarden View Post


    One recent study concluded that 30% of the "tax cuts" will benefit the wealthiest top 0.1% - Trump stands to get a $ billion windfall!
    I don't think that's quite right:

    Spoiler
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Identity politics are a dangerous form of idolatry

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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    I don't think that's quite right:

    Spoiler
    Thanks. That graphic is helpful. Based on that my tax rate would remain the same.

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/b...-tax-plan.html
    How To Improve the Trump Tax Plan - N Gregory Mankiw


    NYT doesn't let you copy/paste so a few points:

    1) He likes the corporate tax cut and the pass-through cut
    2) He fears that the pass-through rate cut being lower than the individual rate will encourage people to reorganize to pay the lower rate. To fix that he suggests cutting the individual rate
    3) One problem with that is the lost revenue. To help with that he gives two ideas. 1) carbon tax 2) consumption tax
    4) A second problem is it may not help with inequality enough. His ideas: 1) increase the EIC and child credit, 2) use the carbon tax revenue to give people a dividend, similar to universal income

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbrumley View Post
    Will Tax Reform Increase or Limit Liberty?
    By Ron Paul
    Ron Paul Institute
    October 10, 2017

    ...Most of the framework’s problems stem from Congress’ continued refusal to offset tax cuts with spending cuts.
    Quote Originally Posted by WizardofOz View Post
    Yup...
    It goes without saying that if you don't cut the size of government that tax cuts are nothing but a façade.

    That being said: What area would you Libertarians cut the size of government?

    Would you start off by cutting the Dept. of Defense, as everyone knows that if you leave Islam alone, they'll leave us alone.



    How about social programs for AIDS victims, drug addicts, etc.? You know, people whose lives Libertarians have helped destroy.

    Thoughts?
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
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    Yes. We can absolutely cut defense spending. It's out of control.
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Identity politics are a dangerous form of idolatry

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    It goes without saying that if you don't cut the size of government that tax cuts are nothing but a façade.

    That being said: What area would you Libertarians cut the size of government?

    Would you start off by cutting the Dept. of Defense, as everyone knows that if you leave Islam alone, they'll leave us alone.
    That's one place, the Education Dept, among others..
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post

    How about social programs for AIDS victims, drug addicts, etc.? You know, people whose lives Libertarians have helped destroy.

    Thoughts?
    Thoughts? Your still a pathetic authoritarian who thinks he's a real conservative.
    Contrary to what many Americans seem to think, the document we now call "the Constitution" and the Declaration of Independence are not pretty much the same thing or "connected in spirit," or "two sides of the same coin." The two documents were written by two different groups of people at two different times to accomplish two totally different goals.

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