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Thread: "But it doesn't work"

  1. #16
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post
    Umm - this link is a problem
    Here is an excerpt from the article:

    "Actually, Prohibition Was a Success
    By Mark H. Moore; Mark H. Moore is professor of criminal justice at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government.
    Published: October 16, 1989


    CAMBRIDGE, Mass. History has valuable lessons to teach policy makers but it reveals its lessons only grudgingly.
    Close analyses of the facts and their relevance is required lest policy makers fall victim to the persuasive power of false analogies and are misled into imprudent judgments. Just such a danger is posed by those who casually invoke the ''lessons of Prohibition'' to argue for the legalization of drugs.
    What everyone ''knows'' about Prohibition is that it was a failure. It did not eliminate drinking; it did create a black market. That in turn spawned criminal syndicates and random violence. Corruption and widespread disrespect for law were incubated and, most tellingly, Prohibition was repealed only 14 years after it was enshrined in the Constitution.
    The lesson drawn by commentators is that it is fruitless to allow moralists to use criminal law to control intoxicating substances. Many now say it is equally unwise to rely on the law to solve the nation's drug problem.
    But the conventional view of Prohibition is not supported by the facts.
    First, the regime created in 1919 by the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act, which charged the Treasury Department with enforcement of the new restrictions, was far from all-embracing. The amendment prohibited the commercial manufacture and distribution of alcoholic beverages; it did not prohibit use, nor production for one's own consumption. Moreover, the provisions did not take effect until a year after passage -plenty of time for people to stockpile supplies.
    Second, alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
    Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.
    Third, violent crime did not increase dramatically during Prohibition. Homicide rates rose dramatically from 1900 to 1910 but remained roughly constant during Prohibition's 14 year rule. Organized crime may have become more visible and lurid during Prohibition, but it existed before and after.
    Fourth, following the repeal of Prohibition, alcohol consumption increased. Today, alcohol is estimated to be the cause of more than 23,000 motor vehicle deaths and is implicated in more than half of the nation's 20,000 homicides. In contrast, drugs have not yet been persuasively linked to highway fatalities and are believed to account for 10 percent to 20 percent of homicides.
    Prohibition did not end alcohol use. What is remarkable, however, is that a relatively narrow political movement, relying on a relatively weak set of statutes, succeeded in reducing, by one-third, the consumption of a drug that had wide historical and popular sanction.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/16/op...a-success.html


    I am sure the professor's views were considered reportable and printable at the time BUT again this is not know to be fact in the studies that followed both in economics and social studies. History is always written by the victors and facts are studied where available.
    A statement was made that Prohibition didn't work. Facts were shown that it did. I will agree that our cultural more's are much different today then they were back then (our society is a moral sewer), but facts are facts.

    Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
    I don't believe that I've ever read a post by a Libertarian such as yourself where the term "victimless crime" wasn't used. This is a first.

    This is the second derogatory remark you have made with absolutely no grounding and shows how poorly your mind is functioning given the commandments of this site. HOWEVER it made me laugh so much I do have to thank you
    This place is overflowing with Libertarians. Funny thing is, none of them will stand up and defend their Godless secular humanist doctrine.

    Would you care to at least attempt to defend it?
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

  2. #17
    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    [box]you sir, are a retard
    I would be concerned if you didn't think so. As you learned, the long-term effects of Prohibition was a 30 percent decrease in alcohol consumption, wide-spread violation of the law, and the rise of organized crime in America.

    If you think that "works" then I don't want you to think I'm thinking well.

    good day
    And you have a good one too, hear?
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

    If you think that "works" then I don't want you to think I'm thinking well.
    stop being a retard and go back and read my post

    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    contrary to the general current fables spun about prohibition and accepted by the retarded, it was indeed a "roaring" success - prohibition grew out of a need to control the rampant alcoholism and social disruption resulting, especially among the poor in the urban centers


    in that, it was successful

    in the above, that refers to the original purpose of prohibition, the need to control the rampant alcoholism and social disruption resulting, especially among the poor in the urban centers

    nowhere there did i say it was successful in totally eliminating alcohol consumption

    and i addressed the unintended consequences, something you might have noticed if you weren't such a retard

  4. #19
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    Here is an excerpt from the article:
    Many thanks I am sorry that I could not read this before making my reply and thank you for your patience :-)

    The real problem is that human beings will take substances for whatever ails them. In the case of the legal drug alcohol which can be made by anyone at home with little in terms of investment vs cost of buying a supply. Indeed it is made in our UK prisons according to at least two previous inmates that I have known.

    So there must be reasons for the population as a whole to feel the need for a substance to relieve their ills and because of the fact that it was legal and easily accessible alcohol was their choice at the time.

    Prohibition made it dangerous to produce alcohol to share with others so instead it was sold only by strong (in some way) people and where there is profit there is crime (at least the temptation is very high).

    This is the situation with all substances classed as dangerous in society right now that may be better replacements to alcohol.


    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    This place is overflowing with Libertarians. Funny thing is, none of them will stand up and defend their Godless secular humanist doctrine.

    Would you care to at least attempt to defend it?
    Why would I feel the need to defend myself against name calling?

    If you ask specific questions I will respond as best as I am able HOWEVER I do not accept your label.

  5. #20
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post

    ...The real problem is that human beings will take substances for whatever ails them.
    What ails them is a spiritually empty life.

    Why would I feel the need to defend myself against name calling?
    I have to admit, calling someone a Libertarian is pretty low isn't it?
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    ... calling someone a Libertarian is pretty low isn't it?
    rather, it's a pretty retarded way to try to get a conversation going

  7. #22
    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    OK Doser, Prohibition accomplished nothing but enabling mobsters like Al Capone and others to make a fortune .

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    OK Doser, Prohibition accomplished nothing but enabling mobsters like Al Capone and others to make a fortune .

    ...alcohol consumption declined dramatically during Prohibition. Cirrhosis death rates for men were 29.5 per 100,000 in 1911 and 10.7 in 1929. Admissions to state mental hospitals for alcoholic psychosis declined from 10.1 per 100,000 in 1919 to 4.7 in 1928.
    Arrests for public drunkennness and disorderly conduct declined 50 percent between 1916 and 1922. For the population as a whole, the best estimates are that consumption of alcohol declined by 30 percent to 50 percent.


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to ok doser For Your Post:

    Nihilo (April 21st, 2017)

  10. #24
    LIFETIME MEMBER aCultureWarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    rather, it's a pretty retarded way to try to get a conversation going
    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...ism&highlight=
    Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?
    Galatians 4:16

  11. #25
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    What ails them is a spiritually empty life.
    Quite possibly - however is that their fault? Or ours?

    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    I have to admit, calling someone a Libertarian is pretty low isn't it?
    Respect!

    It is not the label - it is the 'stamping' of me with it - name calling. The glue does not stick any more.

    I do not know what a Libertarian is as a person only as a collection of other words from dictionaries and worded and verbal contexts. This is never a good way to think of a person IMHO.

  12. #26
    Baboon musterion's Avatar
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    Big text scare Saxophone Hammerpants!

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to musterion For Your Post:

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    Over 1000 post club The Horn's Avatar
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    OK Doser , so you think it would be a good idea to make alcoholic beverages illegal again ? Well you're dead wrong .

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    OK Doser , so you think it would be a good idea to make alcoholic beverages illegal again ?
    i didn't say that

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Horn View Post
    OK Doser, Prohibition accomplished nothing but enabling mobsters like Al Capone and others to make a fortune .
    It seems to be his idea of a successful plan. Unless he thinks a small decrease in alcohol consumption makes up for widespread disrespect for the law, and the rise of large organized crime syndicates.

    Maybe that's it. Hard to say. But I don't think either of those makes any sense.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It seems to be his idea of a successful plan.
    you sir are a retard

    a dishonest retard

    have fun burning in hell

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