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  1. #31
    TOL Subscriber Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephencbh View Post
    Well that is something we disagree on. This is what causes all the confusion and why the trinity was created to try and make sense of it.

    Accept that the Bible is ambiguous and the possibility that the text will never provide proof either way.
    I accept nothing that you or anyone says that is not true, and what I've told you is true; the Maker became flesh and dwelt among us. There is no ambiguity. John chapter 1 was obviously written carefully, specifically to avoid ambiguity.
    Quote Originally Posted by stephencbh View Post
    The Church today provides a lot of free coffee....
    That's at the bottom of the list of indulgences that the Church indiscriminately and at her pleasure grants to the world.
    "To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant"---Newman

    Matthew 16:18 AENT "I say also to you that you are Keefa, and on this Keefa I will build my assembly, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it." (BR, emphasis mine)

  2. #32
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    I accept nothing that you or anyone says that is not true, and what I've told you is true; the Maker became flesh and dwelt among us. There is no ambiguity. John chapter 1 was obviously written carefully, specifically to avoid ambiguity.
    Which bible is your reference for this statement? I have not read the book fully nor studied it so I would like to read this reference myself if you would allow it. I would like to be sure that we both had the same book to avoid misunderstanding your comment.

    Since when did a church do anything it is people who provide the coffee not the building nor the religion.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    I accept nothing that you or anyone says that is not true, and what I've told you is true; the Maker became flesh and dwelt among us. There is no ambiguity. John chapter 1 was obviously written carefully, specifically to avoid ambiguity.
    That's at the bottom of the list of indulgences that the Church indiscriminately and at her pleasure grants to the world.
    I have had many chats with people who take the bible to be the word of God and get nowhere, it is after all quite a narrow minded position to take.

    So the Bible isn't ambiguous...

    Genesis 1, Elohim creates the world makes man in his own image, states what food is for what and all is very good.

    Genesis 2,3. A God with 2 names is making strange rules and curses the earth.

    Genesis 4. Now we just have the word Lord, is this God, without gen 2,3 we wouldn't assume so.

    Then Able is praised for sacrificing animals and Cain is rebuked for bringing what it says to eat in Gen 1.

    On to the New Testament.

    Yeshua begins the Lord's Prayer, Our Father.

    John 17:11 Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me,

    Rev 11:15 the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,

    3 excerpts from the bible which clearly show that Yeshua and God are 2 different entities.

    Jesus Christ does not appear in Matthew, Mark or Luke. If we add an apostrophe it would correct it; Jesus' Christ.

    But the greatest of evidence that the bible is ambiguous is how unable we have been over the last 2000 years to agree on one understanding of it.


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  5. #34
    TOL Subscriber Nihilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post
    Which bible is your reference for this statement?
    Any Christian translation of the Bible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post
    I have not read the book fully nor studied it so I would like to read this reference myself if you would allow it. I would like to be sure that we both had the same book to avoid misunderstanding your comment.
    John 1:1 (KJV)
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post
    Since when did a church do anything it is people who provide the coffee not the building nor the religion.
    The Body of Christ the Church is people.
    "To be deep in history, is to cease to be Protestant"---Newman

    Matthew 16:18 AENT "I say also to you that you are Keefa, and on this Keefa I will build my assembly, and the gates of Sheol will not subdue it." (BR, emphasis mine)

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    God says, nothing, because is God. Let the embrace of god caress thy shoulders and thou will type the word. It need not become the time of the usb feather and ink pot before celebration bestows in the dust settled. Disagreement falls foul and the mould becomes the salt of disagreement. Who seeks the covenant? The ultimate understanding of body and bread, blood and wine is not an agreement to disagree. The body is the now and the blood is the happening and we are in the now and happening. The particle and the wave... the light.... Hmmm, ill have to think about that myself.

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    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarragh View Post
    God says, nothing, because is God. Let the embrace of god caress thy shoulders and thou will type the word. It need not become the time of the usb feather and ink pot before celebration bestows in the dust settled. Disagreement falls foul and the mould becomes the salt of disagreement. Who seeks the covenant? The ultimate understanding of body and bread, blood and wine is not an agreement to disagree. The body is the now and the blood is the happening and we are in the now and happening. The particle and the wave... the light.... Hmmm, ill have to think about that myself.
    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

    I make the alligators look tame.
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman.
    Lord have mercy.


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    LIFETIME MEMBER steko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
    Far out, man!
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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  11. #38
    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Far out, man!
    To infinity and beyond.

    I make the alligators look tame.
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman.
    Lord have mercy.


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  13. #39
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Any Christian translation of the Bible.
    John 1:1 (KJV)
    The Body of Christ the Church is people.
    Thank you for the reference and the response is - ??? - How is that a form of proof for you?

    Our God would have always existed and the formation of words is a human trait and it humans that created the concept of the word 'God'. This word concept (God) is used for many reasons that often have little to do with a God and more to do with human reactions and a need to explain things.

    According to the people of the world, there are many Gods that are worshipped by people for the same reasons they have always done.

    The soul ('God') needs to express itself and does so through the body (in whatever form) and humans learn from the other humans all words. Without these words the bible is no more than a stack of waste paper and meaning and understand could not be derived. However the bible is read by humans and still the words that are written can be understood however are they the same words in the same world?

    NO.

    The soul ('God') is ever-living and words themselves are transmutable so any 'bible' is only a record from a place and point in time and not a MANUAL for the living.

  14. #40
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
    Or a lack of concern for any personal gain?

  15. #41
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephencbh View Post
    God made man in his image. So we are mini Gods but have a long way to go before we have any real resemblance to God.

    Not sure if you supplanting one word for the other will help understanding.

    Our leaders are more like followers in that they adapt to remain popular with the bulk of society and that is changing rapidly.


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    I do not feel that I am supplanting either word only trying to form an understanding of how to properly use/explain these word concepts. I have come to such a strong Christian site because 'god is in you and god is in me' is the only way to behave morally without concerns about harm being caused between people.

    However religions are by their nature exclusive groups and this is not an acceptable trait for any true God. One God is provided for all and includes all without exception. We have all known this God and will know this God again however as individuals we are a soul in a body with the need to express ourselves in this world (existence). It pleases the individual soul to join with others and make something good and wholesome however the struggle for survival of our animal form does not always lead us to this contentment.

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  17. #42
    Fiddle Dee Dee Tambora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon Hammer View Post
    Or a lack of concern for any personal gain?
    Impersonal gain is the way to go.

    I make the alligators look tame.
    A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman.
    Lord have mercy.


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  19. #43
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Impersonal gain is the way to go.
    Is that like
    'the good of all' impersonal
    OR
    'I just don't give a damn' impersonal

    ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
    Wow... keep wandering around in the book. Survivalist notions. Nice solid belief you have built up around you. He washed their feet as to not thread old dust from where they walked the journey shown as the sacrament, the supper, not to be copied but absorbed into out hearts. See it! It's right there! Every sunday it's repeated all over the world, slowly and a demonstration. It has also turned into a broken record.

  21. #45
    Journeyman Saxon Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarragh View Post
    Wow... keep wandering around in the book. Survivalist notions. Nice solid belief you have built up around you. He washed their feet as to not thread old dust from where they walked the journey shown as the sacrament, the supper, not to be copied but absorbed into out hearts. See it! It's right there! Every sunday it's repeated all over the world, slowly and a demonstration. It has also turned into a broken record.
    Is this about the body of christ at mass? Is this specific to one 'type' (sorry) of christianity?
    Is it your own record that is broken? You no longer sing the words in your heart?

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