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Thread: Are we born sinless? Pelagianism and semi-pelagianism

  1. #451
    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4992232]Your answers are devoid of scriptural support. Well written, and fun to read... but you're out of gas. You're now at the borders of your doctrinal wonderland.
    All you have are distortions and rejection of what the scriptures actually says and teaches !

    One has to ignore and reject a whole lot of scripture to end up where your ilk has landed.
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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  3. #452
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    All you have are distortions and rejection of what the scriptures actually says and teaches !

    One has to ignore and reject a whole lot of scripture to end up where your ilk has landed.
    Oh... Okay... I have an idea... I'll link all 5 of my OP's that you can't even touch and are full of scripture.

    Here... I link some scripture for you BRB

    Scriptural List
    Core Scriptures

    (The Deceiver) Revelation 12:9; For all the “Nay Sayers” that want to take the devil out of the doctrine… note that you are denying “SCRIPTURE” that spans from Genesis to Revelation… and… that’s not a good idea!
    Spoiler
    John 12:31; Luke 10:18; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 8:44; Rev. 20:10; Rev. 20:2-3; Rev. 12:3; 1 John 5:19; 1 Pet. 5:8; 2 Thes. 2:9f, 11; 2 Co. 11:3; Gen. 3:1; Rm. 16:20; John 16:11; John 14:30; Luke 13:16; Mt. 25:41; Mt. 4:10; Is. 14:12; Rv. 19:20; Rv. 18:23; Rv. 18:2; Rv. 16:14; Rv. 12:7; Rv. 9:20; Rv. 2:24; Jd. 1:9; 1 John 3:8-10; Heb. 2:14; 2 Tim. 3:13; 1 Tim. 3:6-7; 1 Tim. 2:14; 2 Thes. 2:3; Eph. 4:14; 2 Cor. 12:7; 2 Cor. 11:14; 2 Co. 2:11; Rm. 16:18; Acts 26:18; Acts 5:3; Luke 22:31; Luke 22:3; Luke 8:12; Mt. 24:24; Mt. 13:39; Mt. 4:8; Mt. 4:5; Mt. 4:1; Zech. 3:1f; Ezek. 28:16; Is. 27:1; Ps. 109:5; Job 2:1-2; Job 1:6f, 8f, 10f, 12; 1 Chr. 21:1; Gen. 3:13; Gen. 3:4f;


    (The Deceived) 1 Tim. 2:14; Gen. 3:6; Gen. 3:13; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Thes. 3:5; Rev. 12:15

    (The Heart Broken Groom of Self-Sacrifice) Rm. 8:2; Rm. 5:14; John 6:57; John 5:21; Gen. 2:7; Gen. 2:23; Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:30; Eph. 5:25; Mt. 19:3f, 5f, 7f, 9; Eph. 5:28f, 30f; 1 Co. 6:16f; 1 Co. 7:10f; 1 Pt. 3:1f, 3f, 5f, 7; 1 Co. 7:2f, 4; Rm. 7:2; Pr. 31:10; Pr. 12:4; 1 Tim. 5:14; Acts 11:23; Joshua 23:8; Dt. 4:4; Lev. 22:12f; Gn. 31:14f, Gn. 24:58f;

    (Love Trumps ALL) John 15:13; 1 John 2:7; 3:11; Lev. 19:18; 2 John 1:5f; Mk. 12:29f, 31f, 33f, 35f; Gal. 5:13f; Rm. 13:8f, 10; Mt. 22:37f, 39f; 1 John 3:23; 1 John 2:24; James 2:8f, 10f, 12; Mt. 5:43; Dt. 6:5; Lev. 19:34
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  4. #453
    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Oh... Okay... I have an idea... I'll link all 5 of my OP's that you can't even touch and are full of scripture.

    Here... I link some scripture for you BRB
    Don't waste your time. I prefer scripture in context without the spin you put on it.

    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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  6. #454
    Silver Member Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Heb. 2:14 and 1 Co. 15:55f

    Like 1000 times... WHO Had the "Power" of death in the passage and WHO did God defeat?

    Are you seriously even reading what I write?

    I don't even know what its called when someone is grossly checkmated and keeps on trying to play.
    The only "power" of Satan is deception.

    The sovereign power of Christ is Truth.

    The former temporal; the latter eternal.

    Apples and oranges.

    Your dualism brings too much attention and focus upon Satan, who is only a creature, after all.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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  8. #455
    Silver Member Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Oh... Okay... I have an idea... I'll link all 5 of my OP's that you can't even touch and are full of scripture.

    Here... I link some scripture for you BRB

    Scriptural List
    Core Scriptures

    (The Deceiver) Revelation 12:9; For all the “Nay Sayers” that want to take the devil out of the doctrine… note that you are denying “SCRIPTURE” that spans from Genesis to Revelation… and… that’s not a good idea!
    Spoiler
    John 12:31; Luke 10:18; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 8:44; Rev. 20:10; Rev. 20:2-3; Rev. 12:3; 1 John 5:19; 1 Pet. 5:8; 2 Thes. 2:9f, 11; 2 Co. 11:3; Gen. 3:1; Rm. 16:20; John 16:11; John 14:30; Luke 13:16; Mt. 25:41; Mt. 4:10; Is. 14:12; Rv. 19:20; Rv. 18:23; Rv. 18:2; Rv. 16:14; Rv. 12:7; Rv. 9:20; Rv. 2:24; Jd. 1:9; 1 John 3:8-10; Heb. 2:14; 2 Tim. 3:13; 1 Tim. 3:6-7; 1 Tim. 2:14; 2 Thes. 2:3; Eph. 4:14; 2 Cor. 12:7; 2 Cor. 11:14; 2 Co. 2:11; Rm. 16:18; Acts 26:18; Acts 5:3; Luke 22:31; Luke 22:3; Luke 8:12; Mt. 24:24; Mt. 13:39; Mt. 4:8; Mt. 4:5; Mt. 4:1; Zech. 3:1f; Ezek. 28:16; Is. 27:1; Ps. 109:5; Job 2:1-2; Job 1:6f, 8f, 10f, 12; 1 Chr. 21:1; Gen. 3:13; Gen. 3:4f;


    (The Deceived) 1 Tim. 2:14; Gen. 3:6; Gen. 3:13; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Thes. 3:5; Rev. 12:15

    (The Heart Broken Groom of Self-Sacrifice) Rm. 8:2; Rm. 5:14; John 6:57; John 5:21; Gen. 2:7; Gen. 2:23; Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:30; Eph. 5:25; Mt. 19:3f, 5f, 7f, 9; Eph. 5:28f, 30f; 1 Co. 6:16f; 1 Co. 7:10f; 1 Pt. 3:1f, 3f, 5f, 7; 1 Co. 7:2f, 4; Rm. 7:2; Pr. 31:10; Pr. 12:4; 1 Tim. 5:14; Acts 11:23; Joshua 23:8; Dt. 4:4; Lev. 22:12f; Gn. 31:14f, Gn. 24:58f;

    (Love Trumps ALL) John 15:13; 1 John 2:7; 3:11; Lev. 19:18; 2 John 1:5f; Mk. 12:29f, 31f, 33f, 35f; Gal. 5:13f; Rm. 13:8f, 10; Mt. 22:37f, 39f; 1 John 3:23; 1 John 2:24; James 2:8f, 10f, 12; Mt. 5:43; Dt. 6:5; Lev. 19:34
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

  9. #456
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Don't waste your time. I prefer scripture in context without the spin you put on it.

    Brilliant... Dodge scripture and then come back with a smashing rebuttal. How very A-J squared away of you.

    I just linked scripture that supports everything I am saying, but if you want the old goat to get off scott free and bind him to Adam... who is a typification of Jesus... by all means... let the old goat off the hook.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  10. #457
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    The only "power" of Satan is deception.

    The sovereign power of Christ is Truth.

    The former temporal; the latter eternal.

    Apples and oranges.

    Your dualism brings too much attention and focus upon Satan, who is only a creature, after all.
    You literally have no scriptural legs to stand on here. And... I agree... Satan "Deceives".

    Cough... Cough...

    Oops... Look mom... Hebrews 2:14 reveals that Nang is wrong!
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  11. #458
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    And... Now we know that Nang is sleepy when she reads scripture. The root of the problem is now clear. Give here some creeds or writings of men and she's "eyes wide open".

    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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  13. #459
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    YOUR problem seems to be you think Satan ate off of the tree instead of Adam !


    Where exactly in scripture does it say "in Satan all die" ?

    I can give you the scripture that says "in Adam all die".
    1st Co. 15 is about death and rebirth into our incorruptible bodies. Also... it says... As in Adam...

    1st Co. 15:26 is an interesting ditty... Why is death "personified"?

    26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

    Waiting breathlessly for your doctrines of men answer.

    Oh... looky ... 1 John 3:10 is an issue as it insinuates a different head ship?!? I wonder if Jesus said the same thing?

    Do you believe in "predestination" Dodge?
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  14. #460
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Mt. 13:38
    Luke 6:35 ... Predestination is "loving your enemy"?
    John 8:44
    John 8:47... which comes after John 8:44... hmmm ... headship? Did Jesus say you are "Son's of Adam"?
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  15. #461
    TOL Subscriber Eagles Wings's Avatar
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    What's with the military jabs, guys?

    Has nothing to do with topical debate.

    Thanks for your service.
    Historic Church Documents
    The Apostles' Creed.....The Nicene Creed.....The Athanasian Creed.....Definition of Chalcedon


    http://www.reformed.org/documents

    Romans 8:28
    We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

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  17. #462
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    John 12:31 ... Did Jesus lie?
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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  19. #463
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles Wings View Post
    What's with the military jabs, guys?

    Has nothing to do with topical debate.

    Thanks for your service.
    It was from me and I have enormous respect for Dodges service. It was a way of staying friendly while we were disagreeing.

    And... you are welcome.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  20. #464
    Over 5000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye. View Post
    You are aware that the hyphen in the book of Job in the matter of the words "Sons of God" and the usage of the word "nephilim" as giant in the case of Goliath makes the usage of the book of Enoch kind of lame in discussion... right?

    It's one of those matters that really shouldn't be used for doctrine.
    It's a valid question. Stink eyes.
    The offspring of the daughters of men and angels. What was their spiritual condition?


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

  21. #465
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    It's a valid question. Stink eyes.
    The offspring of the daughters of men and angels. What was their spiritual condition?


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    The word for "Sons of God" does not completely correlate with "Angels" because of the way the actual Hebrew translates. The book of Job shows this. The word Nephilim is also a word for "giant" in reference to Goliath. So... post flood. Not accurate.

    It's an idea and it comes from the book of Enoch which is a sham. Only the first chapter has any recognizable validity.

    I'm not trying to be a "killjoy"... but facts is facts.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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