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Thread: Are we born sinless? Pelagianism and semi-pelagianism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Men corrupt themselves:

    "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves" (Ex.32:7).

    When something is corrupted it goes from a state that is "good" unto a state which is "bad."

    That means that before anyone corrupts himself his state is "good," just like the state of Adam when he was created (Gen.1:31).

    It is ridiculous to argue that men emerge from the womb spiritually dead because that state cannot be described as being "good."



    Would you give me your definition of the word "sin"?
    That passage in Ex. 32:7 has nothing to do with what you are reading into it.

    Ol Mo was up on that Mountain receiving the very Law while they were corrupting themselves before the Law was given.

    The issue was their departure from the God of their fathers unto the ways of the heathen - corruption they had already known in Egypt.

    And as intojoy noted, even "innocent" - "all flesh" - babies perished in The Flood.

    Babies, and cute puppies, you name it; all perished in The Flood.

    Your wood is wet, bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    They were the religious leaders of Israel ! They heaped burdens on others that they themselves would not perform. They also became a road block to knowing God.
    This is good verbiage... There were some God fearing Pharisees, but they stayed out of Jesus' way or "sought Him in secret".
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
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    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4991937]
    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post

    Again... Remission means Debt paid and this is theologically incorrect. Heb. 10:4 makes this clear. There is no mistake that you are shifting the focus away from humility and placing it on "works".

    Again...

    For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

    I fully understand the typification... but you are now sidestepping my actual points by incorrectly citing that Animal sacrifice "remitted" sin.
    God seemed to think it was important i.e. blood as a type of the coming Messiah since He instituted blood sacrifice immediately after the fall through Adam, he received skins of sacrificed animals, and Able receiving the same covering through blood of sacrificed animals.



    In fact... you stopped debate with me on the topic of Ademic implications after I posted and reposted a specific reply to you on another thread. I'll do my best to find it and link it.
    I stopped the debate because you dismissed every verse that PROVES man is born with a sinful and fallen nature. Original sin is in scripture.

    I'm beginning to suspect that you are at the limits of your learned doctrine.
    I began to suspect that your whole purpose was to promote an UN-scriptural position of man being born in the same unspoiled image as Adam when scripture in many places teach that mankind is "fallen".

    We agree that we disagree. AS you I base what I believe on scripture. I see no purpose to debate with anyone who dismisses or puts scripture in conflict with itself.

    Peace
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    This is good verbiage... There were some God fearing Pharisees, but they stayed out of Jesus' way or "sought Him in secret".

    Some= 1
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post

    God seemed to think it was important i.e. blood as a type of the coming Messiah since He instituted blood sacrifice immediately after the fall through Adam, he received skins of sacrificed animals, and Able receiving the same covering through blood of sacrificed animals.

    I stopped the debate because you dismissed every verse that PROVES man is born with a sinful and fallen nature. Original sin is in scripture.

    I began to suspect that your whole purpose was to promote an UN-scriptural position of man being born in the same unspoiled image as Adam when scripture in many places teach that mankind is "fallen".

    We agree that we disagree. AS you I base what I believe on scripture. I see no purpose to debate with anyone who dismisses or puts scripture in conflict with itself.

    Peace
    I went back and found it. I dismissed no verses but offered perspective that comes from all scripture instead of "some" scripture. We see this occur with the Torah continually. Which... Genesis is part of.

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4985814

    I agree to disagree, as well. You've been putting scripture in conflict with itself quite a bit and I haven't ceased debate. Let the record show that the sailor didn't throw his sucker in the dirt and walk off like the marine.

    And...

    All Grace and Peace,

    - EE
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    What was the condition of the nephilim toddlers?


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL

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    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    I went back and found it. I dismissed no verses but offered perspective that comes from all scripture instead of "some" scripture. We see this occur with the Torah continually. Which... Genesis is part of.

    http://theologyonline.com/showthread...=1#post4985814

    I agree to disagree, as well. You've been putting scripture in conflict with itself quite a bit and I haven't ceased debate. Let the record show that the sailor didn't throw his sucker in the dirt and walk off like the marine.

    And...

    All Grace and Peace,

    - EE

    What you call perspective I call spin !


    Let the record show the Marine believes the scripture as it is written and does not take scripture out of context to fit his own opinions.
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post

    What you call perspective I call spin !


    Let the record show the Marine believes the scripture as it is written and does not take scripture out of context to fit his own opinions.
    Let the record show what Dodge is calling a spin.

    1. Satan is the originator of sin
    2. Pride is the first sin
    3. Eve was deceived
    4. Adam was bound to Eve as Jesus binds Himself to us
    5. Adam willingly partook of death because he Loved Eve and didn't want to Live without her
    6. Jesus defeated Satan who sinned against God by deceiving Eve to imbibe in "the Law", which Satan could then use to enforce physical death upon mankind through mankind's imperfection by the Morally Perfect Standards of God. (1 Co. 15:55f; Heb. 2:14)
    7. That Eve was Bone of Adams Bone and Flesh of His flesh who Adam would "leave his Father for" and cling to, which was a prophecy of The Son coming to us.
    8. That Love should be taken into account in the Eden account
    9. That we are responsible for our own Spiritual Death (Blindness) by our own sin.
    10. That we are born into "corruption" just as Adam and Eve were, because Creation is permitted to choose and chooses badly... I.E. corruption entered the Garden via Satan.
    11. It is not okay to blame our bad choices on Adam and suggest we are doomed to sin because of Adam, instead of admit that only God can wield Good while having the knowledge of good and evil and judge correctly.
    12. Humility is the cornerstone of all Relationship with God.
    13. Paul and Peter link Adams Self Sacrifice to Christ's self sacrifice.
    14. God is Love and Adam and Eve represent God's Love for us.
    15. The list goes on....

    Nice "Dodge"... Dodge!

    The post where Dodge started dodging Evil.Eye.<(I)>

    Spoiler
    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Thank you I was distracted when I posted the sin nature comes through Adam and Jesus had an earthly mother NOT an earthly Father, and there was a reason for that.
    I know you revere the very WORD of God and HIS Scripture, thus I was certain this was the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    There was a reason Jesus had no earthly father.
    God Fathered God. This is the very "reason". The Sin that is "passed" down idea is Augustine and not scriptural. God made us equal to Him as His "children" of "His Body", but the Patriarchal tradition in scripture is specifically to show us our "Not Like God" place and equality existing only through Love likened to intimacy that is beyond the consummation of a marriage.

    I cannot emphasize how Calvinist and Augustine the idea is that we are imputed with "Adam's" sin or "sin nature". We make mistakes... God doesn't. That's the actual truth of the matter. We are not and never will be "like God".

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Even though man is born with a sin nature there is still no real excuse ! Scripture says every man is drawn away through his "own" lust and when lust conceives it produces sin and sin produces death.....Where id man's lust come from I would argue it comes from his sinful nature.
    In other words... the extra biblical concept of imputed sin and "sin nature, can go out the window and all is well in Jesus land. You see it... I can tell you see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Jesus was truly man without a sin nature just as Adam was showing that Adam chose to disobey God He did NOT have to sin.
    If He was tempted in every manner we were tempted in scripture... this is misleading. What if I say...

    Our 5 Star General gave each of us a shot to recognize that He deserved His supreme Authority, or challenge it and from the first Angel to the Last Human... none have "measured up". Would that be "fair" to say? Same rules... same playing field... Only ONE could Draw "Excalibur".

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    That is making an excuse to sin. Adam disobeyed God period.
    So admitting that I have free will and screw up is making an "excuse for sin", while saying God "imputed" a Sin nature through Adam or I "inherited" a "sin nature" from Adam and can't help but sin isn't?

    Did you ever tell your Drill instructor that you couldn't make your bunk properly because your Great-Great Grand Father couldn't make his bunk properly, thus you have a propensity to screw up your bunk?

    How would that have gone?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Yes, I have read and prayed over the analogy of the bronze serpent many times.
    Bottom line of the analogy is look to Jesus for forgiveness as they looked to the bronze serpent to be healed we look to Jesus and only Jesus to be saved from the sting and poison of sin.
    Aha! AMEN.... Fully Agree! Only One "Bright" ... and TRUE... "NORTH". We can either pull our compass and map out and measure the Klicks out for ourselves, or we can accept that "He" alone made it through this "Jungle" for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    I dealt with all of that at the foot of the cross in 1978.
    Amen and Praise Jesus! Hoo Yah! Well... ya know I shouldn't be saying Hoo Rah... but... didn't we both have the same insignia's on our pay-stubs?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Why was Jesus born without an earthly Father ? Surely there was a reason !
    Only God can Father God. We addressed this earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    That death thingy came from Adam how do you explain that death is a result of sin. Even though babies die never having sinned ?
    Aha... Now you speak of "Physical" death. Is this not the result of us being "Like God", thanks to the old Dragon's excellent (severe sarcasm) suggestion. He's that one guy in the ranks that screws it up for everyone! The old Dragon is essentially Full Metal Jacket's Pyle, eating a jelly donut while we all suffer!

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    offered the forbidden fruit to Adam and he ate HE DID NOT HAVE TO. You are placing the blame on Satan when it was Adam who DISOBEYED God.
    I believe that Adam didn't want to live without Eve and took on her "Sin" in a literal fashion, while a very SUPER DUPER SQUARED AWAY SOLDIER ... Aced the coarse and then imputed HIS SUCCESS in place of "EVERYONE" else's Failures and sniped the Alpha TARGET in the progress (Heb. 2:14). Do I get points for literary creativity yet and does not the Groom "Lay" his life down for the "Bride"... per scripture, while the instigator of the conflict is FOOBARed and DOA?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Satan tempted Eve she chose to disobey God she did NOT have to. Eve gave the forbidden fruit to Adam and he chose to sin. Satan tempted Eve and Adam disobeyed.
    Eve was "seduced" into feeling "lacking". Again... Did Adam think "Eve" was "lacking"? I'm fairly certain the whole cloths thing upset him in the long run. Just saying... Does not scripture say this.... (1 Peter 3:7)? Does it not also say this... (Eph. 5:25)? Do you really want to take the (1 John 4:8) and the (1 Cor. 13) out of the matter?

    Can you think of a more God defining Statement than God is Love that makes the (John 5:39) of the matter even more clear in the Creation account? Christology... Christology... Christology!

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    We sin because that is our nature to sin but we are responsible because of our nature that is what we chose to do.
    That's odd... because as long as I have known better, I do it because I willingly screw up and then reap the consequences which usually suck! As in... sin... in and of itself is an empty pursuit, but we aren't GOD and Sin is actually "Missing the Mark", so in reality... we were born different from God and always will be, because God never desired to "Marry" a "Clone" of "Himself". Does that make sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    We agree Jesus is the only propitiation there is no other.
    Well Amen to that! This is imperative and binds us as brethren in Him with the afforded enjoyment of discussing differing theological perspectives.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Like the experience of Adam disobeying God and with that experience would have been trapped in living in sin had God not covered him with animal skins.
    I could push this point to say that God covered up the most beautiful things He had ever formed and was disgusted that Satan caused Adam and Eve to be ASHAMED of HIS Workmanship...

    But... I mainly want to point out that you are looking at the "Flesh" of Adam and Eve and not their "Hearts". We can do this as we have All Scripture and on top of it... (1 Cor. 2:16, 1 John 4:8 and 1 Cor. 13)... but that's just me. Is the disobedience the "important" part? Or is the message of Love the important part?

    Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Again why do you suppose Jesus had no earthly Father there was a reason otherwise God what purpose did that serve ?
    Again... Only God can Beget God. As for the "Flesh" of the matter... God is no cheater. I genuinely believe that He walked as a 100 percent Man, just like scripture says, because He alone can "Walk" Righteously and Good without screwing up. If any other being was "Perfect like God"... they would "Be God". And alas... since that whole "Be like God" ego trip of the Dragon didn't work out so well, I'm fairly certain the fate of anyone else who tries it will end up similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    He alone is Holy and righteous.
    Amen Dodge! Amen!


    P.S. Dodge... (1 Pt. 4:8). But hey... who uses scripture to discern scripture?!?
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; April 21st, 2017 at 10:22 AM.
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    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

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    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    What was the condition of the nephilim toddlers?


    Sent from my iPhone using TOL
    You are aware that the hyphen in the book of Job in the matter of the words "Sons of God" and the usage of the word "nephilim" as giant in the case of Goliath makes the usage of the book of Enoch kind of lame in discussion... right?

    It's one of those matters that really shouldn't be used for doctrine.
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    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4992207]Let the record show what Dodge is calling a spin.

    1. Satan is the originator of sin

    Satan tempted but Adam sinned.

    2. Pride is the first sin

    Disobedience to God's command was the sin the reason is immaterial.


    3. Eve was deceived

    Correct.

    4. Adam was bound to Eve as Jesus binds Himself to us

    While true it is immaterial Adam disobeyed God.

    5. Adam willingly partook of death because he Loved Eve and didn't want to Live without her

    [B]While true it is immaterial Adam disobeyed God.[/B
    6. Jesus defeated Satan who sinned against God by deceiving Eve to imbibe in "the Law", which Satan could then use to enforce physical death upon mankind through mankind's imperfection by the Morally Perfect Standards of God. (1 Co. 15:55f; Heb. 2:14)
    Does NOT change the fact that Adam disobeyed God.


    7. That Eve was Bone of Adams Bone and Flesh of His flesh who Adam would "leave his Father for" and cling to, which was a prophecy of The Son coming to us.
    Bad analogy Adam was barred from the tree of life after he disobeyed God.

    8. That Love should be taken into account in the Eden account

    So Adam's love for Eve made it OK to disobey God ?
    [QUOTE]


    9. That we are responsible for our own Spiritual Death (Blindness) by our own sin.
    David said he was shaped in iniquity and born into sin.


    10. That we are born into "corruption" just as Adam and Eve were, because Creation is permitted to choose and chooses badly... I.E. corruption entered the Garden via Satan.
    Which was not possible without Adam's disobedience.


    11. It is not okay to blame our bad choices on Adam and suggest we are doomed to sin because of Adam, instead of admit that only God can wield Good while having the knowledge of good and evil and judge correctly.
    Those that place their faith in Jesus are recovered from the fall they inherited in Adam.
    In Adam all die and in Jesus all live.

    12. Humility is the cornerstone of all Relationship with God.

    True God resits the proud.



    13. Paul and Peter link Adams Self Sacrifice to Christ's self sacrifice.
    Adam is a type who failed while Jesus over came every temptation, which Adam COULD have done.

    In ADAM all die !


    14. God is Love and Adam and Eve represent God's Love for us.
    God showed His love for Adam and Eve by warning them of the dangers in the forbidden tree ! They disobeyed God and HE still showed them love by covering them in skins.


    15. The list goes on....
    Yes it does even the ones you spin making excuses why Adam failed God.

    Nice "Dodge"... Dodge!
    What is the point of beating a dead horse. YOU excuse everything of any importance based on your opinions NOT scripture ?

    The post where Dodge started dodging Evil.Eye.<(I)>
    Go back and read Genesis 3 again without your preconceived opinions and let the scripture say what it means and mean what it says.

    [spoiler]

    I know you revere the very WORD of God and HIS Scripture, thus I was certain this was the case.
    Correct the twisting and taking out of context of scripture because I don't want something to be true is not the way to approach the creator of life and learn anything.


    God Fathered God. This is the very "reason". The Sin that is "passed" down idea is Augustine and not scriptural. God made us equal to Him as His "children" of "His Body", but the Patriarchal tradition in scripture is specifically to show us our "Not Like God" place and equality existing only through Love likened to intimacy that is beyond the consummation of a marriage.
    The Holy Spirit over shadowed Mary to break the curse of Adam passed on Adam's progeny.


    I cannot emphasize how Calvinist and Augustine the idea is that we are imputed with "Adam's" sin or "sin nature". We make mistakes... God doesn't. That's the actual truth of the matter. We are not and never will be "like God".

    Nope , it is neither it is scripture.


    In other words... the extra biblical concept of imputed sin.
    You mean the one in the bible !

    If He was tempted in every manner we were tempted in scripture... this is misleading. What if I say...

    Our 5 Star General gave each of us a shot to recognize that He deserved His supreme Authority, or challenge it and from the first Angel to the Last Human... none have "measured up". Would that be "fair" to say? Same rules... same playing field... Only ONE could Draw "Excalibur".
    If ? don't you mean since He was tempted in every way ?



    So admitting that I have free will and screw up is making an "excuse for sin", while saying God "imputed" a Sin nature through Adam or I "inherited" a "sin nature" from Adam and can't help but sin isn't?
    Your free will will, without Jesus leading,will lead you to sin EVERY TIME and there is a reason for that you ignore.


    Did you ever tell your Drill instructor that you couldn't make your bunk properly because your Great-Great Grand Father couldn't make his bunk properly, thus you have a propensity to screw up your bunk?
    Humanizing ! Not even close to truth.

    How would that have gone?
    Probably 400 or 500 push ups.

    I never dodge the truth you are not teaching the truth of scripture your opinion yes scripture no.
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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    Evil.Eye.<(I)>;4992207]Let the record show what Dodge is calling a spin.

    1. Satan is the originator of sin

    YOUR problem seems to be you think Satan ate off of the tree instead of Adam !


    Where exactly in scripture does it say "in Satan all die" ?

    I can give you the scripture that says "in Adam all die".
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    YOUR problem seems to be you think Satan ate off of the tree instead of Adam !
    Lies and Shenanigans. Your problem is that you have no good answer for anything I have just said, thus you are avoiding a direct answer or resorting to twist the actual matter that I am expressing.

    You are now officially out of gas and without scriptural rebuke. Your misrepresentation of what I have spelled out over 5 meticulous OPs is noted. You are literally lying about what I am saying.

    But... If you want to take the (Love)God out of your doctrine... that's your prerogative.

    Quit rattling of dismissal and false assertions of what I am saying; when, in reality, you are speechless and in scriptural check mate. Either answer my post line by line or... "Shut your trap".

    With Sincerity,

    @Evil.Eye.<(I)>
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Evil.Eye.<(I)> For Your Post:

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  17. #448
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    Let the record show
    Spoiler
    what Dodge is calling a spin.

    1. Satan is the originator of sin

    Satan tempted but Adam sinned.

    2. Pride is the first sin

    Disobedience to God's command was the sin the reason is immaterial.


    3. Eve was deceived

    Correct.

    4. Adam was bound to Eve as Jesus binds Himself to us

    While true it is immaterial Adam disobeyed God.

    5. Adam willingly partook of death because he Loved Eve and didn't want to Live without her

    [B]While true it is immaterial Adam disobeyed God.[/B


    Does NOT change the fact that Adam disobeyed God.




    Bad analogy Adam was barred from the tree of life after he disobeyed God.

    8. That Love should be taken into account in the Eden account

    So Adam's love for Eve made it OK to disobey God ?





    David said he was shaped in iniquity and born into sin.




    Which was not possible without Adam's disobedience.










    True God resits the proud.





    Adam is a type who failed while Jesus over came every temptation, which Adam COULD have done.

    In ADAM all die !




    God showed His love for Adam and Eve by warning them of the dangers in the forbidden tree ! They disobeyed God and HE still showed them love by covering them in skins.




    Yes it does even the ones you spin making excuses why Adam failed God.



    What is the point of beating a dead horse. YOU excuse everything of any importance based on your opinions NOT scripture ?



    Go back and read Genesis 3 again without your preconceived opinions and let the scripture say what it means and mean what it says.




    Correct the twisting and taking out of context of scripture because I don't want something to be true is not the way to approach the creator of life and learn anything.




    The Holy Spirit over shadowed Mary to break the curse of Adam passed on Adam's progeny.





    Nope , it is neither it is scripture.




    You mean the one in the bible !



    If ? don't you mean since He was tempted in every way ?





    Your free will will, without Jesus leading,will lead you to sin EVERY TIME and there is a reason for that you ignore.




    Humanizing ! Not even close to truth.



    Probably 400 or 500 push ups.

    I never dodge the truth you are not teaching the truth of scripture your opinion yes scripture no.
    Your answers are devoid of scriptural support. Well written, and fun to read... but you're out of gas. You're now at the borders of your doctrinal wonderland.

    - EE

    1 Peter 4:8 decimates every dismissal you have written here.

    My "preconceived" ideas are drawn from the New Testament... Tell me again how we shouldn't use the New Testament when reading the "Old Testament"? I'm waiting breathlessly.

    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
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    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  18. #449
    Over 2500 post club dodge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Lies and Shenanigans. Your problem is that you have no good answer for anything I have just said, thus you are avoiding a direct answer or resorting to twist the actual matter that I am expressing.

    You are now officially out of gas and without scriptural rebuke. Your misrepresentation of what I have spelled out over 5 meticulous OPs is noted. You are literally lying about what I am saying.

    But... If you want to take the (Love)God out of your doctrine... that's your prerogative.

    Quit rattling of dismissal and false assertions of what I am saying; when, in reality, you are speechless and in scriptural check mate. Either answer my post line by line or... "Shut your trap".

    With Sincerity,

    @Evil.Eye.<(I)>
    I see with all the distraction you never provided a verse that says in "Satan all die " ! I can provide the verse that says in "Adam all die ".

    Sin did not enter the world "until" Adam disobeyed God.

    Your line of reasoning has check mated your brain you cannot see the forest for the trees.
    The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dodge For Your Post:

    Eagles Wings (April 21st, 2017),Nang (April 21st, 2017)

  20. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodge View Post
    I see with all the distraction you never provided a verse that says in "Satan all die " ! I can provide the verse that says in "Adam all die ".

    Sin did not enter the world "until" Adam disobeyed God.

    Your line of reasoning has check mated your brain you cannot see the forest for the trees.
    Heb. 2:14 and 1 Co. 15:55f

    Like 1000 times... WHO Had the "Power" of death in the passage and WHO did God defeat?

    Are you seriously even reading what I write?

    I don't even know what its called when someone is grossly checkmated and keeps on trying to play.

    Look... John 8:44 even shows the headship of the matter. Want some more like it? I can produce them.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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