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Thread: MAD, as blunt as it is likely to get (for discussion)

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    MAD, as blunt as it is likely to get (for discussion)

    This is from McLean's blog this morning.

    http://www.discerningthetimespublish...contactus.html

    Posting this because he's saying in no uncertain terms what all MADs tend to believe (at least it's a logical conclusion to what we say we believe) but often are too polite to say plainly...


    You may find this difficult to believe; please consider this for a few years before you dismiss it: almost all of the people you are attempting to teach Progressive Revelation and subsequently mid-Acts Pauline dispensationalism are unsaved and will land in hell !! Until they become purely Pauline they will invariably be confused about how a soul is saved. Consider:

    Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Matthew 25:46 And these (who did not help the poor) shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Mark 13:13 … but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved…

    Luke 21:18-19 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. In your patience possess ye your souls.

    John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again….3:5…born of water and of the Spirit, John 5:28-29… they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    You will find that people who are not purely Pauline invariably combine performance-related elements from the verses listed above and are no more saved than the horse they rode in on. When you confront them is when they will tell you they prayed the sinner’s prayer or they asked Jesus into their heart or that they love Jesus. Don’t let them get away with it.

    For example: the sinner’s prayer… Luke 18:13 … saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. Ask them “Why should God be merciful to you? Because you asked? Luke 18 is six chapters before the cross…” And then, you present I Cor. 15:1-4 and preach Christ and Him crucified.
    Question for MADs: is he too blunt here, too direct? Or is he right on?

    And for non-MADs...do you notice he did NOT say people are saved by mid-Acts dispensationalism, saved by being Pauline in doctrine, or saved by Paul? Did you catch that? He didn't say it because no MAD believes it (whereas Calvinists often do equate TULIP = Gospel). Getting that out of the way before someone lobs that same old dud of a grenade again.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    McLean's wife is an absolutely perfect example of Ephesians 4:2's "With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; )

    She once related the following...

    How that for some time, she had been trying to get through to a friend of hers about the simplicity of the gospel, only to continue to get nowhere.

    Her tactic; a very simple one.

    "I'm so glad" she'd say to her friend, at every opportunity she found, "that God forgave me for His Son's sake - I sincerely doubt I'd be able to measure up to that command to forgive in order to be forgiven by God."

    One day her friend says to her "You know; I've been thinking about...what is it you are always saying you're so glad about...yes - that! Tell me more about that..."

    "A few minutes later" the sweet woman relates "my friend came to know that all her sins were forgiven, and that heaven was her eternal home..."

    It appears she follows what various Mid-Acts Pastors and "choir" I have observed over the years, both often advise, and follow, in their own dealings with such.

    2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

    And there are also certain issues that come into play when dealing with others on what they'd be better off actually hearing out, that we perhaps might not think on much.

    For example, it is one thing for a person to read of his or her negatives in Scripture, or in one book "about" or another, or to hear it from a pulpit where the message is more a whomever one aspect or another might fit.

    There isn't much chance of the taking of a thing personally in a negative way arising out of one, together with it's closing off, as happens when it is one on one.

    Only those more stablished in the faith are able to weather that with any consistency.

    So there is that thing that differs to consider as a possible hindrance to the intended work.

    Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

    Paul's writings on this issue are more in favor of honey over vinegar in one's dealings with all sorts of opposition against the gospel of Christ about twenty-five to one; and unconditionally so.

    1 Corinthians 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 4:11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 4:12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

    Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
    Last edited by Danoh; March 31st, 2017 at 04:50 AM.

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    Not seeing an answer to my question. You made it about you again.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Not seeing an answer to my question. You made it about you again.
    Only those more stablished in the faith are able to weather that kind of bluntness.

    McLean's is his personality.

    He is EVER TOO blunt.

    And bluntness tends to end up a licence to get away with just plain old bigotry against anyone who does not hold one's views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    He is EVER TOO blunt.
    Okay, so you put him in the Too Blunt column. I do too. My opinion is, he's often needlessly blunt; kinda like the rhetorical flourishes you indulge in, only far nastier and indeed counterproductive if one doesn't already agree with him (and maybe even if one does). None of us are near perfect but he almost never displays anything approaching gentleness, either in his writing or in the audio I've listened to.

    So that aside...is his essential point in that post correct or incorrect?

    I say it is correct. If someone is not Pauline, odds are they are unsaved because of the mix of works they've invariably (even unintentionally) included. I've come to think why His condemnation given through Paul in Galatians 1 falls hardest on the PREACHERS of false gospels rather than upon those who've believed them.

    HOWEVER, the Gospel itself is the power of God unto salvation...God alone knows how much weight the deceived have placed upon their work in addition to Christ's. Is it possible some may yet be saved while ignorantly laboring under imposed weight of works? My mind says "No." My heart says "I don't know." But I know better than to trust my heart, so I lean toward what the mind says.

    But in any case, the Judge of all the earth WILL do right. And I'm fine with that.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    I have a few books by McLean and I do find him too blunt or abrasive at times, but I can pick through and find valuable points to consider anyway.
    I agree that he is correct on that particular point, though.
    Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
    Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

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    Speaking of being blunt...

    The Apostle Paul is forever harping on the need for kid gloves towards the lost and or confused.

    The Lord was the same way.

    He made a distinction between those who were simply evil and those who did not know better.

    And both they and the others had also continually pointed out the hypocrisy of showing favoritism towards those one considers of one's own number.

    Someone like a nang, or an IP, or a GT, or whomever, actually makes a valid point. It is ignored, argued against, and or whatever.

    Someone from within your number makes that same point and you are all over yourselves high-fiving one another.

    McLean is exactly like that himself.

    That also...is very defeating to your supposedly hoped for getting through to those you would save from themselves.

    Unless, the Lord simply did not know what he was talking about...

    Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

    Or Paul...

    2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

    Or James...

    James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2:2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 2:3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 2:4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

    And so on....

    Scripture is forever harping on this issue that some on TOL are forever oblivious to even as they assert they care about getting through to said "poor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    And for non-MADs...do you notice he did NOT say people are saved by mid-Acts dispensationalism, saved by being Pauline in doctrine, or saved by Paul? Did you catch that?
    Yes.
    THE LORD JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. Matthew 28:6 (KJV) Mark 16:6 (KJV) Luke 24:6 (KJV)

    Romans 10:9 (KJV) 1st Corinthians 15:14 (KJV)

    Trevor: "I know how to drive, man."
    Ricky: "You also know how to be stupid."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    Yes.
    Thanks!
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Speaking of being blunt...

    The Apostle Paul is forever harping on the need for kid gloves towards the lost and or confused.

    The Lord was the same way.

    He made a distinction between those who were simply evil and those who did not know better.
    Thing is, there are very very few innocent babes in the woods on TOL. The regular railers are quite settled in their opposition to the power of God unto salvation due to their hard devotion to other gospels. They hear the saving Truth repeatedly but reject it just as often. That is a fact and you know it well. So you playing nice nice with them is a failing, not a credit, as is your scolding MADs for not being all things Danoh.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    Thing is, there are very very few innocent babes in the woods on TOL. The regular railers are quite settled in their opposition to the power of God unto salvation due to their hard devotion to other gospels. They hear the saving Truth repeatedly but reject it just as often. That is a fact and you know it well. So you playing nice nice with them is a failing, not a credit, as is your scolding MADs for not being all things Danoh.
    What exactly do you hope to accomplish by calling someone stupid, let alone; repeatedly - how exactly does that work?

    Never mind, stupid.

    I mean, that is what you are saying will work on you - to call you stupid...repeatedly.

    The very thing you and yours take issue with me over, in each your perception that that is what I am calling you and yours.

    You have each taken personally offensive this perception of yours that I am calling you stupid, and yet here you are insisting that calling others stupid will somehow work some other magic on them that is obviously failing on you and yours


    We can be blunt, but take great issue with anyone being blunt with us - give me a break.

    Par for the course with far too many direct people - such are often not very good at taking their own medicine

    Whoop, there come some of yours to high-five ya.

    Fortunately, very few MADs are like you and yours in this duplicity of yours.

    I'm just being blunt, ya know.

    You...should be just fine with that; right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    What exactly do you hope to accomplish by calling someone stupid, let alone; repeatedly
    1.God calls them that.

    2. Because it is a fact.

    They're lying mouths must be shut with constant unvarnished rebuke.

    Either help or get out of the way. Go warm the bench.
    Not a single cluster of living fruit was, or ever will be, harvested from the tree of legality. Law can only produce “dead works,” from which we need to have conscience purged just as much as from “wicked works.”

    C. H. Mackintosh


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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    1.God calls them that.

    2. Because it is a fact.

    They're lying mouths must be shut with constant unvarnished rebuke.

    Either help or get out of the way. Go warm the bench.
    God does not play favorites.

    Ye - you and yours do.

    By your one-sided reckoning; your lying mouths in this must also be shut with unvarnished truth.

    Ye are each all about how right ye alone are.

    Ye report non-club members for the very offences your club members violate - that ye yourselves do not report.

    Dress this up how ye will; ye are fallen from grace in this.

    Ye are pals...in the flesh.

    Plain and simple.

    A real...riot.


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