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Thread: PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

  1. #16
    Over 2500 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tnkrbl123! View Post
    when you said "those conditions on earth that humans can eventually have" can you explain what you mean by this please? I think you are talking about when Jesus returns and gathers up all of His creation and we will finally live in the new earth and God will dwell here with us for eternity, just like God intended life to be for us when He put adam and eve in the garden of eden before their fall. Well at least when I think of heaven that is what I think about and look forward to. Is that what you mean also?
    Or do you mean that you think it possible for us to live that way right now, that it is obtainable now in our current state of the world?
    You may have missed the whole point of the Bible. It tells us of the original purpose for the earth and humans, and it was for mankind to live on this beautiful planet forever & for us to take care of the earth and everything in it.

    "This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, the Former of the earth, the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

    "God blessed them and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it..." (Genesis 1:28)

    "And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)


    Why do you think God made this wonderful physical Earth and put humans on it if he didn't want us to live here forever? Why do you think his plans changed? I don't believe that he did change his plans! Jesus came to give us our perfect lives back, (which Adam lost for the human race) and because of what he did, we can look forward to living on this planet forever.

    God and Jesus will not literally come down to this earth and live here. How preposterous! Imagine---the maker of the sun and all the galaxies actually living on this earth! How can you maintain such a ridiculous line of thought? Clearly the so-called destruction of the earth that Peter seemingly talked about has another meaning, that the earth will be regenerated and cleaned up, and Jesus himself will reign OVER the earth. In Revelation 21 God "comes down" in the sense that his attention is focused on the earth, and he aims to guide his people in their endeavors, through the offices of his Son and the New Jerusalem (Jesus' co-rulers).

    We can't have the lives NOW that we were intended to have, because we are still under the influence of Satan and his rulership of the world (I John 5:19), but the Bible tells us that Jesus will soon set up his own government over the earth and THEN we will be able to live in peace, with healthy, perfect bodies. (See Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44; Job 33:25.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

    JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
    Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.
    Oh no. If you really examine the scriptures you can see that what I am saying is true. There are scriptures in the Bible that you never knew were there, I guarantee you. A fantastic website is:Link removed, You'll really find answers there.
    Last edited by Sherman; March 25th, 2017 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Link dropping--link removed.

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    Over 5000 post club marhig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Deuteronomy 11:18-21
    18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and shall combine them as an evidence against your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes
    [supernal: that your "eye be single", Matthew 6:22].
    19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house,
    [every man is a "house" in the doctrine of the Master] and when you walk along the Way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
    20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house,
    [supernal: arms-hands-deeds] and upon your gates: [for every man is also likened to a city with gates in the doctrine of the Master: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden]
    21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which YHWH has sworn unto your fathers to give them;
    as the days of the heavens upon the earth.

    Revelation 21:1-6 KJV
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
    [2Cor 5:17] And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6 And he said unto me, It is done.
    [γεγοναν!] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    Believe it or not Paul is quoting Yohanan here:

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    17 Therefore, if any be in Meshiah,
    [the same is] a new creature: Old things are passed away, behold, γεγονεν! [It is done!] all things [γεγονεν - are become] new!

    I agree regarding 2 Corinthians 5:17, it's the new birth.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    You may have missed the whole point of the Bible. It tells us of the original purpose for the earth and humans, and it was for mankind to live on this beautiful planet forever & for us to take care of the earth and everything in it.

    "This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, the Former of the earth, the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it to be inhabited..." (Isaiah 45:18)

    "God blessed them and God said to them: 'Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it..." (Genesis 1:28)

    "And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it." (Genesis 2:15)


    Why do you think God made this wonderful physical Earth and put humans on it if he didn't want us to live here forever? Why do you think his plans changed? I don't believe that he did change his plans! Jesus came to give us our perfect lives back, (which Adam lost for the human race) and because of what he did, we can look forward to living on this planet forever.

    God and Jesus will not literally come down to this earth and live here. How preposterous! Imagine---the maker of the sun and all the galaxies actually living on this earth! How can you maintain such a ridiculous line of thought? Clearly the so-called destruction of the earth that Peter seemingly talked about has another meaning, that the earth will be regenerated and cleaned up, and Jesus himself will reign OVER the earth. In Revelation 21 God "comes down" in the sense that his attention is focused on the earth, and he aims to guide his people in their endeavors, through the offices of his Son and the New Jerusalem (Jesus' co-rulers).

    We can't have the lives NOW that we were intended to have, because we are still under the influence of Satan and his rulership of the world (I John 5:19), but the Bible tells us that Jesus will soon set up his own government over the earth and THEN we will be able to live in peace, with healthy, perfect bodies. (See Isaiah 9:6,7; Daniel 2:44; Job 33:25.)
    You make sense.

    thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Its a two phase thing.

    First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

    Then later only Heaven.

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    LA
    Huh? Why do you think "later" we accept the terms of "only heaven"? Why not "only earth" the way we were first created? Revelation is mostly SYMBOLIC, and it describes the relationship between humans here on earth and the glorious heavens guiding us. Peter speaks of all the EVIL things that are dissolved, not the actual planet. What "elements" would literally dissolve? What is there in the physical creation that needs to be destroyed? It is only the "ungodly people" who will be revealed and undergo destruction.

    "According to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of hold and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. [Did the planet actually get destroyed? No.] By the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men." Not the planet. It will survive, just like the planet survived in Noah's day. Only the ungodly will go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    You make sense.

    thank you
    Of course she does. She is a JW and you were spawned from them....were you not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    I agree regarding 2 Corinthians 5:17, it's the new birth.
    Paul teaches on such things also when he says that Jerusalem of above is our mother, that is by the context, mother-covenant. We see the symbolism of Jerusalem above in the same Rev 21 passage which has been referenced already. And if Jerusalem of above is our mother-covenant then what is the daughter of Jerusalem, but the new covenant? New Jerusalem is therefore the new covenant: so the new covenant comes down from the heavens from God; and like daughter, like mother, which means that the new covenant is essentially the primary covenant but rather seen through new eyes. Those "new eyes" are the focal lenses of the covenants and promises as seen through the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts which expounds all things necessary for us to understand, (with deep study, prayer, and in a walk over time, much time). When Paul speaks of Jerusalem of above he quotes from Isaiah 54:1 but if you follow that context into Isaiah 54:2-3 you will easily see that in that passage Isaiah is comparing Jerusalem to the Mishkan-Tabernacle, which therefore represents the primary covenant given to Moses according to what Paul is saying in Galatians 4:22-31. The Tabernacle of Elohim, (Rev 21:3), is therefore New Jerusalem of above, the daughter of Jeruslaem of above, and the new covenant pictured like as durable clothing, Oh to be clothed from on high, (as Paul expounds it in 2Cor 5:1-4 which clearly speaks in heavenly tabernacle language). Therefore we sow toward the Spirit and spiritual things in our walk, (as you already know). One day, if you just keep eating and consuming the Word, and putting on the mind of Messiah, it is all going to descend from the heavens of your mind and come together in full understanding, rising up like the Daystar in your heart; for the mind is filled up with knowledge, but understanding dwells in the heart.

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    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Of course she does. She is a JW and you were spawned from them....were you not?
    I studied with them for a while and concluded they the best organization. Their fruit is godly conduct in over all.

    They don't follow "faith only" or "grace only" or "OSAS" or pro-military.

    Their pacifist position got my respect, above all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    I studied with them for a while and concluded they the best organization. Their fruit is godly conduct in over all.

    They don't follow "faith only" or "grace only" or "OSAS" or pro-military.

    Their pacifist position got my respect, above all.
    One's conduct counts for nothing when it's done through self-effort. JW's and other cults are like the Jews were....great zeal but not according to knowledge.

    Romans 10:2-3 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    One's conduct counts for nothing when it's done through self-effort.
    Jesus does not agree with you.


    He says "we know them by their fruit.". their godly conduct is their fruit. They cannot be godly if they don't follow Jesus' teaching.

    they practice what they believe which is godliness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    Paul teaches on such things also when he says that Jerusalem of above is our mother, that is by the context, mother-covenant. We see the symbolism of Jerusalem above in the same Rev 21 passage which has been referenced already. And if Jerusalem of above is our mother-covenant then what is the daughter of Jerusalem, but the new covenant? New Jerusalem is therefore the new covenant: so the new covenant comes down from the heavens from God; and like daughter, like mother, which means that the new covenant is essentially the primary covenant but rather seen through new eyes. Those "new eyes" are the focal lenses of the covenants and promises as seen through the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts which expounds all things necessary for us to understand, (with deep study, prayer, and in a walk over time, much time). When Paul speaks of Jerusalem of above he quotes from Isaiah 54:1 but if you follow that context into Isaiah 54:2-3 you will easily see that in that passage Isaiah is comparing Jerusalem to the Mishkan-Tabernacle, which therefore represents the primary covenant given to Moses according to what Paul is saying in Galatians 4:22-31. The Tabernacle of Elohim, (Rev 21:3), is therefore New Jerusalem of above, the daughter of Jeruslaem of above, and the new covenant pictured like as durable clothing, Oh to be clothed from on high, (as Paul expounds it in 2Cor 5:1-4 which clearly speaks in heavenly tabernacle language). Therefore we sow toward the Spirit and spiritual things in our walk, (as you already know). One day, if you just keep eating and consuming the Word, and putting on the mind of Messiah, it is all going to descend from the heavens of your mind and come together in full understanding, rising up like the Daystar in your heart; for the mind is filled up with knowledge, but understanding dwells in the heart.
    Wow, i think i agree, but to put it more simply the church is the mother, woman, the new Jerusalem also being the church, and when we ask for Gods kingdom to come, we are asking for the new Jerusalem to come down from heaven and clothe us from on high, this is the Holy Spirit, once we receive the Holy Spirit within our hearts, then we are covered, and Christ should start to be made manifest in our lives. All those who have gone on in God are ministering spirits and they are a part of the Holy Spirit, sent to minister into our hearts and bring us the truth and we are to live it out to bring the love and life of Christ to others.

    And to receive understanding from God we must live by the will of God, and be born anew, walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, taking in Gods word and being filled, having a fountain of living water springing up in within our hearts. We can't speak with new tongues if the Spirit isn't giving us a mouth to speak. Without God we are nothing and we can do nothing.
    Last edited by marhig; March 25th, 2017 at 01:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
    Wow, i think i agree, but to put it more simply the church is the mother, woman, the new Jerusalem also being the church, and when we ask for Gods kingdom to come, we are asking for the new Jerusalem to come down from heaven and clothe us from on high, this is the Holy Spirit, once we receive the Holy Spirit within our hearts, then we are covered, and Christ should start to be made manifest in our lives. All those who have gone on in God are ministering spirits and they are a part of the Holy Spirit, sent to minister into our hearts and bring us the truth and we are to live it out to bring the love and life of Christ to others.

    And to receive understanding from God we must live by the will of God, and be born anew, walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, taking in Gods word and being filled, having a fountain of living water springing up in within our hearts. We can't speak with new tongues if the Spirit isn't giving us a mouth to speak. Without God we are nothing.
    Galatians 4 starts out with the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes a son, (inner man which includes all; neither male nor female), and then goes into what I was referencing above, that is, covenants, by way of the allegory of Sarah and Hagar, (of above and of below: Hagar is Egyptian, that is, the allegory of the flesh and the flesh mindset: "O Egypt, great of flesh!", Ezekiel 16:26 KJV in the same allegory). So what does the scripture say of the Master when he rides into Jerusalem on the donkey? Which covenant does he have? It is not only Jerusalem of above, the mother and covenant in his train, but the daughter of Zion and daughter of Jerusalem is now to be delivered in this context. That means in the allegory that the Master has the new covenant with him in that day which they also call, "Palm Sunday", as written in Matthew 21:4-5, which according to Matthew fulfilled that same prophetic passage from Zechariah 9:9 which is quoted. For the same reason Yohanan the Immerser says the following:

    John 3:27-30 ASV
    27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it have been given him from heaven.
    28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but, that I am sent before him.
    29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, that standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is made full.
    30 He must increase, but I must decrease.


    A man can receive nothing if it is not given to him from the heavens, (Rev 21:2). He that has the bride, (new covenant), is the groom. This no doubt means that the Master had "the bride" already, according to Yohanan, when he entered into Jerusalem the city of below on Palm Sunday. The bride is not "the corporate church", (otherwise how will you become a son? also see Luke 12:35-42), but rather the daughter of Jerusalem, that is, the new covenant; for all the Testimony of the Master is the new covenant, and especially that most important Testimony throughout the week leading up to the final Passover in his earthly ministry, which Testimony ends with, "It is Finished!"
    Last edited by daqq; March 25th, 2017 at 02:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    Huh? Why do you think "later" we accept the terms of "only heaven"? Why not "only earth" the way we were first created? Revelation is mostly SYMBOLIC, and it describes the relationship between humans here on earth and the glorious heavens guiding us. Peter speaks of all the EVIL things that are dissolved, not the actual planet. What "elements" would literally dissolve? What is there in the physical creation that needs to be destroyed? It is only the "ungodly people" who will be revealed and undergo destruction.



    "According to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of hold and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; and by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water. [Did the planet actually get destroyed? No.] By the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men." Not the planet. It will survive, just like the planet survived in Noah's day. Only the ungodly will go.
    Two phases after Christ returns, Psalm 72 describes the first which is before the last judgment of Rev.ch 20.

    There is no need for temporal things after the last judgment because the temporal are for mortal living not the eternal.

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    You make sense.
    Of course she does. You all are JWs.
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by musterion View Post
    musterion



    Of course she does. You all are JWs.
    Dear LIAR, the murders coming forth from your mouth appear to be choking you out.
    Too bad your false doctrine ignores the Testimony of the Messiah, (Mt 15:18-19, Rev 21:8).


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