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Thread: PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    I don't have to search the internet for some obscure "scholar" and his rendition.
    I can read, write, and speak Hebrew and Greek myself.
    And I can tell you that it does not mean that GOD just picked out someone to be His own blood, but that it was His own.
    The only blood God owned was in the body of His son, the righteous man born through Mary.
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    Put down the bong. No wonder you have a hard time ===========
    This Post is #1 so far as I'm concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    She has never indicated that she denies that Jesus is the Lord and our Savior. In fact, that is what she always says that she believes. You unkindly twist what she says and ignore important Bible statements. Jesus did not ever say that he was God, and it is extremely unkind of you to say that he did. He is not going to let that blasphemy go unanswered forever. Soon he will show everyone on Earth that his Father alone is God, and all power and authority comes FROM the Father, Jehovah.


    "Jesus said to her:...'I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to MY GOD and your God.'" (John 20:17)
    The NEEDLE hasn't moved, you're still at ZERO and in a perpetual nosedive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    The amount of Scripture that you don't understand is astounding. The Lake of Fire is SYMBOLIC for eternal annihilation, not the unending torture of somebody who can never get out of it, no matter what he does. You and your ilk are sadistic. You try to show God Himself to be sadistic. Such blasphemy is appalling.

    Did you notice that "hell" is cast INTO the Lake of Fire? How do you suppose hell can be cast into itself?
    Hell (Hades) is a place where the physically dead unsaved are kept until the Final Judgement. The Lake of Fire is the destination for those who have been judged by their works and subsequently are cast into that eternal punishment. By the way, it's the same destination where Satan and his ilk will wind up. Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

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    Anyone who has bought into the idea of Soul Annihilation will have a rude awakening if they should die without Christ and find themselves at the Final Judgement.

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    No one need be concerned about eternal damnation as long as they, hear the Gospel and place ALL their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You cannot place half of your faith in; self, your church doctrines, your theories, your good works/deeds, or anything else. You must place ALL of your faith in Christ and His death and resurrection. If not, you'll be judged by your works (Which will not suffice) and be cast into 'The Lake of Fire' for eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    The NEEDLE hasn't moved, you're still at ZERO and in a perpetual nosedive.
    Once again you cast aspersions without commenting on what was said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Anyone who has bought into the idea of Soul Annihilation will have a rude awakening if they should die without Christ and find themselves at the Final Judgement.

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    Greetings Grosnick,
    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    Anyone who has bought into the idea of Soul Annihilation will have a rude awakening if they should die without Christ and find themselves at the Final Judgement.
    Both the faithful and unfaithful will be judged when Christ returns. They will be raised from the grave.
    2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
    Daniel 12:2-3 (KJV): 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
    No one need be concerned about eternal damnation as long as they, hear the Gospel and place ALL their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You cannot place half of your faith in; self, your church doctrines, your theories, your good works/deeds, or anything else. You must place ALL of your faith in Christ and His death and resurrection. If not, you'll be judged by your works (Which will not suffice) and be cast into 'The Lake of Fire' for eternity.
    I am not sure how you define “ALL their faith”. Faith is a belief of certain things, and if we believe the wrong things we do not have a true faith in the things of Christ.
    Acts 8:5–6,12 (KJV): 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    A true belief consists believing the Gospel that Philip and the Apostles preached. This gospel contains the things concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ. Many put their faith in many other wrong ideas, contrary to this Apostolic teaching.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Trevor, would you elaborate on your post above? I don't quite get what you're saying to GM about hell-fire.

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    Greetings KingdomRose,
    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    Trevor, would you elaborate on your post above? I don't quite get what you're saying to GM about hell-fire.
    I carefully avoided the subject of hell fire. I believe that after the judgement at the return of Christ, the unfaithful will be excluded from the immediate presence of Christ and the faithful and will be thus excluded from the Kingdom of God upon the earth when Jesus sits upon the throne of David in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-5. The unfaithful will experience tribulation and suffering in this period of transition from the Kingdoms of men to the Kingdom of God. They will eventually die the second death and return to dust. Fire is a symbol of suffering and trial and destruction and is not literal here. It is based on Gehenna, the rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem, where there was fire and worms.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings KingdomRose,I carefully avoided the subject of hell fire. I believe that after the judgement at the return of Christ, the unfaithful will be excluded from the immediate presence of Christ and the faithful and will be thus excluded from the Kingdom of God upon the earth when Jesus sits upon the throne of David in Jerusalem Isaiah 2:1-5. The unfaithful will experience tribulation and suffering in this period of transition from the Kingdoms of men to the Kingdom of God. They will eventually die the second death and return to dust. Fire is a symbol of suffering and trial and destruction and is not literal here. It is based on Gehenna, the rubbish dump outside of Jerusalem, where there was fire and worms.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    I agree with what you say.

    One thing---I don't believe that Jesus will sit on a physical throne in the earthly city of Jerusalem. Scripture says that he is now in the "real" temple, not made with hands, that God built and not men. There is where Jesus' throne is.

    "The main point of what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up." (Hebrews 8:1,2, New American Bible)

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    Greetings again KingdomRose,
    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    One thing---I don't believe that Jesus will sit on a physical throne in the earthly city of Jerusalem. Scripture says that he is now in the "real" temple, not made with hands, that God built and not men. There is where Jesus' throne is.

    "The main point of what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken his seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle that the Lord, not man, set up." (Hebrews 8:1,2, New American Bible)
    I believe in the literal return of Jesus and the establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem where Jesus will sit upon the literal throne of David. The throne of David was always in literal Jerusalem. When he returns his literal feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives.
    Acts 1:10-11 (KJV): 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
    Zechariah 14:4 (KJV): And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
    Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    JWs continue to look up to heaven where Jesus is now, but the followers of Christ are waiting for him to return to the earth to establish his kingdom centred in Jerusalem. At that time God the Father will send Jesus, the Son of God back to the earth, and as stated above he will no longer be in heaven.

    The following is a literal picture of when Jesus will sit upon the throne of David, and unlike the JW teaching there will be a remnant of the nations after Armageddon:
    Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
    This will be paradise on earth, and the earth will be restored like the Garden of Eden, with Jesus as it’s King.

    In response to a discussion I had with my JW friend yesterday, when I said that I believe in the return of Jesus, she said that Jesus is no longer a man, but the following states that Jesus is still a man.
    1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Unlike JWs, I believe in the resurrection of the body of Jesus, and thus he is still a man, but has now been given immortality. He has a spiritual body, a body that has been changed, not replaced.

    Kind regards
    Trevor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrevorL View Post
    Greetings again KingdomRose, I believe in the literal return of Jesus and the establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem where Jesus will sit upon the literal throne of David. The throne of David was always in literal Jerusalem. When he returns his literal feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives.
    Acts 1:10-11 (KJV): 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
    Zechariah 14:4 (KJV): And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
    Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

    JWs continue to look up to heaven where Jesus is now, but the followers of Christ are waiting for him to return to the earth to establish his kingdom centred in Jerusalem. At that time God the Father will send Jesus, the Son of God back to the earth, and as stated above he will no longer be in heaven.

    The following is a literal picture of when Jesus will sit upon the throne of David, and unlike the JW teaching there will be a remnant of the nations after Armageddon:
    Isaiah 2:1-4 (KJV): 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
    This will be paradise on earth, and the earth will be restored like the Garden of Eden, with Jesus as it’s King.

    In response to a discussion I had with my JW friend yesterday, when I said that I believe in the return of Jesus, she said that Jesus is no longer a man, but the following states that Jesus is still a man.
    1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV): For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Unlike JWs, I believe in the resurrection of the body of Jesus, and thus he is still a man, but has now been given immortality. He has a spiritual body, a body that has been changed, not replaced.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
    David's throne in literal Jerusalem was REPRESENTING the throne of Jehovah which was in heaven. The throne that is of prime importance is that throne in heaven, and Jesus will be ruling there in that temple "not made with hands." Do you discount what is said in Hebrews, chapters 8 and 9?

    The Scriptures don't say that Jesus will no longer be in heaven. Throughout the Bible God is said to "come down" and yet he didn't literally come down to the earth from heaven. That "coming down" has to do with his paying attention to the earth in a particular way, as he has done in the past.

    Exodus 29:45,46
    Numbers 35:34

    If Jesus took back his fleshly body, he would be taking back his sacrifice, don't you see? He sacrificed it once for all time. He is now a mighty spirit Person, just like God is (John 4:24).

    "It is even so written: 'The first man Adam became a living soul.' The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (I Corinthians 15:45)

    "Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit." (I Peter 3:18)

    Jesus Christ, "the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see." (I Timothy 6:16)

    How could a fleshly man survive in that realm? Men can't even look upon that. And doesn't it say in Scripture that flesh cannot be in heaven? (I Corinthians 15:50) Jesus cannot be a spirit person AND a fleshly person. Your idea of "changed, not replaced" is confusing. To change something would mean that it is no longer what it was before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose
    If Jesus took back his fleshly body, he would be taking back his sacrifice, don't you see? He sacrificed it once for all time. He is now a mighty spirit Person, just like God is (John 4:24).
    But surely you must believe that Jesus was bodily resurrected? In fact Jesus ate food to prove to the disciples that He wasn't just a spirit.
    If you reject the physical resurrection of Jesus, then why did Jesus have to physically die? The cross becomes meaningless, if you are suggesting Jesus only had to spiritually die.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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