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Thread: PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

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    Over 2000 post club KingdomRose's Avatar
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    PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?

    When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

    Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?

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    You will get all kinds of bizarre responses to this question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

    Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
    when you said "those conditions on earth that humans can eventually have" can you explain what you mean by this please? I think you are talking about when Jesus returns and gathers up all of His creation and we will finally live in the new earth and God will dwell here with us for eternity, just like God intended life to be for us when He put adam and eve in the garden of eden before their fall. Well at least when I think of heaven that is what I think about and look forward to. Is that what you mean also?
    Or do you mean that you think it possible for us to live that way right now, that it is obtainable now in our current state of the world?

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    TOL Subscriber patrick jane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

    Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
    1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


    Colossians 1:13-14 KJV - Colossians 1:15-16 KJV - Colossians 1:17-18 KJV -

    Colossians 1:19-20 KJV - Colossians 1:21-22 KJV - Colossians 1:23 KJV -

    Colossians 1:25-26 KJV 27, 28, 29 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:12-13, 14 -



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    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

    JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
    Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

    Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
    Its a two phase thing.

    First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

    Then later only Heaven.

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    LA
    My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

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    Over 5000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Revelation 21:1 John 14:2
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
    Its a two phase thing.

    First Heaven on earth where people accept the terms of it,

    Then later only Heaven.

    Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
    Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

    LA
    Deuteronomy 11:18-21
    18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and shall combine them as an evidence against your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes
    [supernal: that your "eye be single", Matthew 6:22].
    19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house,
    [every man is a "house" in the doctrine of the Master] and when you walk along the Way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
    20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house,
    [supernal: arms-hands-deeds] and upon your gates: [for every man is also likened to a city with gates in the doctrine of the Master: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden]
    21 That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which YHWH has sworn unto your fathers to give them;
    as the days of the heavens upon the earth.

    Revelation 21:1-6 KJV
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
    2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
    3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
    5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.
    [2Cor 5:17] And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
    6 And he said unto me, It is done.
    [γεγοναν!] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    Believe it or not Paul is quoting Yohanan here:

    2 Corinthians 5:17
    17 Therefore, if any be in Meshiah,
    [the same is] a new creature: Old things are passed away, behold, γεγονεν! [It is done!] all things [γεγονεν - are become] new!


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    Over 5000 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    PARADISE ON EARTH---don't we all really want it?
    Most people actually do not want anything to do with it when they discover that it requires taking up your own stake and being crucified with Messiah, (Luke 23:43, 2Cor 12:1-9).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

    JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
    Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.
    The Lord's prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, they kingdom come, thy will be done,

    on earth as it is heaven..."

    Bible also talks about new heaven and new earth.

    We should read the bible contextually: meaning what is the theme of the bible, Lon.

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    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meshak View Post
    The Lord's prayer: "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, they kingdom come, thy will be done,

    on earth as it is heaven..."

    Bible also talks about new heaven and new earth.

    We should read the bible contextually: meaning what is the theme of the bible, Lon.
    Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon
    I am thinking for myself.

    It is contextual.

    So you don't believe we will have peaceful earth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Revelation 21:1 John 14:2

    JW's believe they will inherit the earth again, renewed and only the 144k will be in heaven.
    Got Questions gives a more biblical response than the JW veneer imho.
    You need to read prophesy, Lon.

    What do you think will happen in new earth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Again, the JW version is a veneer of poor understanding. You can think as you like, so I'd suggest not taking JW doctrine hook, line, sinker. Think for yourself. Read some more, and even some of the posts in this thread. I'm doing that too. I think it good advice. -Lon

    so what is your version? Do you know?

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    TOL Legend musterion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingdomRose View Post
    When someone mentions "heaven" and they describe what it would be like for them, have you noticed that most often they speak of ideal conditions that would be physical, like here on the earth? They say, oh there will be no more sickness and even the lame will be able to romp with their dogs and there will be food enough for everybody, etc., etc.

    Why do people think that God wants us to go to heaven to have those things? Why is it so difficult to believe that those things and more will be given to us here on Earth? Doesn't most of the O.T. speak of wonderful conditions here on the earth that humans can eventually have?
    Now where have I heard all this before?

    Oh yes...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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    "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
    Terence Mc Lean

    [most will be very surprised]


    Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
    By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

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