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Thread: Why the Star of Bethlehem?

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    Why the Star of Bethlehem?

    Why do they call it "The Star of Bethlehem," when the star led the wise men to Nazareth of Galilee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Why do they call it "The Star of Bethlehem," when the star led the wise men to Nazareth of Galilee?
    What evidence are you speaking from?
    Where is it written or implied that the star led them to Nazareth of Galilee?

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Why do they call it "The Star of Bethlehem," when the star led the wise men to Nazareth of Galilee?
    Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the city of King David's birth.
    The family then fled to Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod.
    Then the family returned to Israel and settled in Nazareth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the city of King David's birth.
    The family then fled to Egypt to avoid the wrath of Herod.
    Then the family returned to Israel and settled in Nazareth.

    Jesus was born in 6 BC, in Bethlehem of Judaea, after which, Joseph took his fiancée and her child back to Nazareth, which was only some two miles from the Galilean town of Bethlehem, which today, is called 'Beitlahm.' Then in 4 BC, after the wise men had come in search of the child that had been born to be the King of the Jews, it was then that they fled into Egypt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    What evidence are you speaking from?
    Where is it written or implied that the star led them to Nazareth of Galilee?
    Lukes gospel speaks of the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem of Judaea, and of the shepheard visiting the child which was circumcised when it was 8 days old, then 33 days after that, when the time came for Mary to perform the ceremony of purification according to the law of Moses, she took the child to the temple in Jerusalem, and after performing everything according to the law of Moses, the family returned to their house in Nazareth.

    Luke then skips to the time when Jesus was about 12 years old, where his parents who were searching for him, finally found him in the temple astounding the priests with his knowledge of the scriptures; the OT.

    Mathew tells of how the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem of Judaea occurred in order to make what the Lord had said through his prophet Isaiah come true, and that was, that an unmarried female, (Not a Virgin) would bear a son out of wedlock and yet he would be the earthly host body that the Lord our saviour would fill with his spirit in order to reveal himself to us: Immanuel=God is with us.

    Matthew then skips forward to over 12 months after the birth of Jesus, when the Magi, who had witnessed what they believed to be the heavenly sign that was to herald the birth of the Jewish Messiah, were to later follow a comet/hairy star, from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem, then up to Nazareth, to pay homage to the child that was born to be the King of the Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Jesus was born in 6 BC, in Bethlehem of Judaea, after which, Joseph took his fiancée and her child back to Nazareth, which was only some two miles from the Galilean town of Bethlehem, which today, is called 'Beitlahm.' Then in 4 BC, after the wise men had come in search of the child that had been born to be the King of the Jews, it was then that they fled into Egypt.
    Herod died in 4 B.C. and that is a matter of historical record.
    Thus, the "wise men" had to visit prior to that and bring tremendous
    wealth with them as gifts, which permitted the family to flee to safety in Egypt.

    When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. - Matthew 2:14-15

    PS This could have occurred when Jesus was old enough for a long journey (ie: around 5 B.C.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Mathew tells of how the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem of Judaea occurred in order to make what the Lord had said through his prophet Isaiah come true, and that was, that an unmarried female, (Not a Virgin) would bear a son out of wedlock and yet he would be the earthly host body that the Lord our saviour would fill with his spirit in order to reveal himself to us: Immanuel=God is with us.
    The Septuagint, the B.C. Greek translation of the Old Testament, renders Isaiah 7:11 "virgin" as parthenos, which is ABSOLUTELY a VIRGIN (either male or female) that has zero sexual experience.
    As well, a Hebrew couple were considered MARRIED, via a sacred ceremony, but did not come together to actually live together for one year, and were not permitted to have intimate relationships during this one year period.
    As was the case with Adam, it was God that provided (created) the DNA. That DNA was created within Mary, which resulted in Yeshua Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called "the second Adam".

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    "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was" (Matthew 2:9).

    Some call it the "Star of Bethlehem" because that is where Jesus was born.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    The Septuagint, the B.C. Greek translation of the Old Testament, renders Isaiah 7:11 "virgin" as parthenos, which is ABSOLUTELY a VIRGIN (either male or female) that has zero sexual experience.
    As well, a Hebrew couple were considered MARRIED, via a sacred ceremony, but did not come together to actually live together for one year, and were not permitted to have intimate relationships during this one year period.
    As was the case with Adam, it was God that provided (created) the DNA. That DNA was created within Mary, which resulted in Yeshua Messiah. Hence, Jesus is called "the second Adam".
    WAS MARY REALLY A VIRGIN?"Yes! Right up until the act by which she conceived her firstborn son Jesus, who was sired by Joseph ben Heli."

    Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, "THE YOUNG WOMAN" is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."

    Isaiah 7: 14; ERRONEOUS King James Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the "VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."

    The Greek word Parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)"

    Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery."
    There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14."

    In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And what do we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."" The catholic church now admit that Isaiah never did say that a "VIRGIN" would conceive and bear a son, etc.

    In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an "Almah" an "unmarried female" is with child and will bear a son," into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for "virgin," the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew correctly used the Greek word "Parthenos," which carries a basic meaning of "girl," or unmarried youth, and denotes "virgin" only by implication."

    When Mary, the young "PARTHENOS=UNMARRIED FEMALE" said that she had never known a man, The implication was, that she was still a virgin at that particular time, until 3 to 4 months later when she became pregnant to her half Brother, Joseph the son Alexander Helios/Heli.

    A more accurate rendering of the Greek "parthenos" is a person who does not have a regular sexual partner, a widow with a family of children, would be a "parthenos"."

    In reference to Hanna/Anna the mother of Mary, who nursed the baby Jesus before Mary performed the ceremony of purification, it is said that Anna was a prophetess who earnestly hoped for the coming of the Messiah, she was an old woman of 84 and had been a widow for seven years, never remarrying, but remaining in her parthenia="Unmarried and sexually chaste state, ect." She was a parthenos, but no way in the world does that mean that she was a virgin."

    To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that "A young woman was with child. "Therefore, as the greater majority of churches now admit, that the words of Isaiah, were, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Matthew 1: 23; should now read, "Now all this happened to make come true "WHAT THE LORD HAD SAID THROUGH ISAIAH," "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Because they all now admit that those were the words of Isaiah 7: 14."

    The Septuagint was a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek, by Hebrews in Alexandria, LONG before the days of Jesus and they like Matthew, were forced to use the Greek term, "Parthenos" in translating the Hebrew "Almah" Because there was no other word in that Language that they could use for maiden, or young girl, etc."

    "Parthenos," was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including Matthew, who translated Isaiah"s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; was in no way implying that Mary was a virgin."

    For the Hebrew has a specific term for "virgin," "Bethulah" which word is used in every instance in the Old Testament where a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man is referred to, which word, 'BETHULAH' Isaiah would have used, if it was the Lords intention to convey the message that a bethulah/virgin would bear a child, which is obviously not the case with the unmarried woman/Almah, who is mentioned in Isaiah 7:14."

    In Pergamos, as one of the final stages in the quest for enlightenment, the initiated adept would participate in sex with the Temple Virgin/Parthenos."

    "Parthenos" did not mean possessing an intact hymen. A parthenos was simply an unmarried woman, a woman who claimed ownership of herself."

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    WAS MARY REALLY A VIRGIN?"Yes! Right up until the act by which she conceived her firstborn son Jesus, who was sired by Joseph ben Heli."

    Isaiah 7: 14; Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, "THE YOUNG WOMAN" is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel."

    Isaiah 7: 14; ERRONEOUS King James Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the "VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel."

    The Greek word Parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)"

    Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery."
    There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14."

    In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And what do we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."" The catholic church now admit that Isaiah never did say that a "VIRGIN" would conceive and bear a son, etc.

    In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an "Almah" an "unmarried female" is with child and will bear a son," into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for "virgin," the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew correctly used the Greek word "Parthenos," which carries a basic meaning of "girl," or unmarried youth, and denotes "virgin" only by implication."

    When Mary, the young "PARTHENOS=UNMARRIED FEMALE" said that she had never known a man, The implication was, that she was still a virgin at that particular time, until 3 to 4 months later when she became pregnant to her half Brother, Joseph the son Alexander Helios/Heli.

    A more accurate rendering of the Greek "parthenos" is a person who does not have a regular sexual partner, a widow with a family of children, would be a "parthenos"."

    In reference to Hanna/Anna the mother of Mary, who nursed the baby Jesus before Mary performed the ceremony of purification, it is said that Anna was a prophetess who earnestly hoped for the coming of the Messiah, she was an old woman of 84 and had been a widow for seven years, never remarrying, but remaining in her parthenia="Unmarried and sexually chaste state, ect." She was a parthenos, but no way in the world does that mean that she was a virgin."

    To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that "A young woman was with child. "Therefore, as the greater majority of churches now admit, that the words of Isaiah, were, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Matthew 1: 23; should now read, "Now all this happened to make come true "WHAT THE LORD HAD SAID THROUGH ISAIAH," "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Because they all now admit that those were the words of Isaiah 7: 14."

    The Septuagint was a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek, by Hebrews in Alexandria, LONG before the days of Jesus and they like Matthew, were forced to use the Greek term, "Parthenos" in translating the Hebrew "Almah" Because there was no other word in that Language that they could use for maiden, or young girl, etc."

    "Parthenos," was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including Matthew, who translated Isaiah"s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; was in no way implying that Mary was a virgin."

    For the Hebrew has a specific term for "virgin," "Bethulah" which word is used in every instance in the Old Testament where a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man is referred to, which word, 'BETHULAH' Isaiah would have used, if it was the Lords intention to convey the message that a bethulah/virgin would bear a child, which is obviously not the case with the unmarried woman/Almah, who is mentioned in Isaiah 7:14."

    In Pergamos, as one of the final stages in the quest for enlightenment, the initiated adept would participate in sex with the Temple Virgin/Parthenos."

    "Parthenos" did not mean possessing an intact hymen. A parthenos was simply an unmarried woman, a woman who claimed ownership of herself."
    Nope.
    Been reading a lot of Gnostic writings huh?

    In the Genesis account of Rebekah, when she lived in her father's house in Ur of the Chaldeans, all three words for "virgin" are used... almah, na'arah, bethulah interchangeable.
    The Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Koine Greek in the 3rd & 4th Century B.C. by the finest scribes available (70). They knew perfectly well that the Isaiah reference was to a "closed vagina" with hymen intact. Parthenos applies to a male or female with NO sexual experience whatsoever - look it up in a reliable lexicon.
    http://jewsforjesus.org/publications...-young-maiden/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was" (Matthew 2:9).

    Some call it the "Star of Bethlehem" because that is where Jesus was born.
    But nowhere in scripture does it state that the star guided the wise men to the stable in Bethlehem of Judaea, in fact it is said that the star stood over the 'HOUSE' in which Mary and her child was, and the term 'STOOD OVER' in ancient literature refers to comets and comets only.

    King Herod the Great, did call his advisors who informed that the scriptures stated that the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem of Judaea, and he advised the wise men to go there in search of the child, but first he called them to a secret meeting and asked them when the heavenly sign that they believed had heralded the birth of the promised Messiah, had first appeared, See Matthew 2: 7.

    When they left the palace of Herod, the star that they had seen in the east appeared once again, and rather than take Herod's advise, they travelled in the direction of the star to the north west of Jerusalem, until, late in the afternoon, they saw before them a small an insignificant hamlet, above which stood the comet with its tail streaming off into the heavens as it followed the setting sun, and appearing to stand over and pointing to the 'HOUSE' in which the Holy Family now resided.

    When the wise men did not return to Herod and reveal the whereabouts of the child, he ordered the slaughter of all the male children in that vicinity who were two years and below, according to the time that the wise men had told him that they had seen the heavenly sign that had heralded his birth. See Matthew 2: 16. Almost two years ealier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradley D View Post
    "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was" (Matthew 2:9).

    Some call it the "Star of Bethlehem" because that is where Jesus was born.
    The original poster seems to be confused about the two visitations in Bethlehem; the first at his birth by the shepherds and the second visitation by the "wise men".
    The first account has Jesus lying in a feeding-trough for animals and wrapped in cloth (believed to be the torn strips of cloth from the priests vesture, which were discarded), in the basement of the "inn".
    The second visitation could well have been some time later, when Jesus was a toddler. Since it was Joseph's "home town", there is every reason to believe that the family had moved into more permanent housing in Bethlehem.
    Nazareth was much farther north in Israel, at a "crossroads" or much traveled "junction" (trace the etymology of "nazar" or "natzar").

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Why do they call it "The Star of Bethlehem," when the star led the wise men to Nazareth of Galilee?

    Quote Originally Posted by S-word View Post
    Jesus was born in 6 BC, in Bethlehem of Judaea,

    This isn't a fault of TOL. It is a by-product of the internet.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    Nope.
    Been reading a lot of Gnostic writings huh?

    In the Genesis account of Rebekah, when she lived in her father's house in Ur of the Chaldeans, all three words for "virgin" are used... almah, na'arah, bethulah interchangeable.
    The Septuagint was translated from Hebrew to Koine Greek in the 3rd & 4th Century B.C. by the finest scribes available (70). They knew perfectly well that the Isaiah reference was to a "closed vagina" with hymen intact. Parthenos applies to a male or female with NO sexual experience whatsoever - look it up in a reliable lexicon.
    http://jewsforjesus.org/publications...-young-maiden/
    Look it up all you want youngen, but the Hebrew term 'ALMAH' can in no way ever be translated as Virgin.

    The Good News Bible: Catholic Study Edition: Proverbs 30; 19; translate the Hebrew term “Almah” as woman. “And a man and a woman falling in love.”

    The New Revised Standard bible, likewise translates the Hebrew “ALMAH,” as “GIRL.” “The way of a ship on the seas, and the way of a man with a girl.”

    From the KJV Genesis 24: 13; Abraham's faithful servant said; "Behold, I stand here by the well of water; and the “DAUGHTERS=banoth= daughters, descendants ” of the men of the city come out to draw water. (14) And let it come to pass that the “DAMSEL=yaldah=lass,girl” to whom I shall say etc.

    How many of those unmarried daughters of the men of city were Almahs (Non virgins) or Bethulahs (virgins?) We don’t know, because the sexual status of those girls is not being referred to.

    Now let us skip from Genesis 24: 13; to verse 16; In reference to Rebecca we read, “And the ‘DAMSEL=yaldah=girl’ was very fair to look upon, and was a virgin=bethulah= having never known a man sexually.

    Here, Rebecca, the ‘DAMSEL=yaldah=girl’ is said to have never known a man sexually, and here she is referred to as a Bethulah, a virgin.

    Please refrain from using the scriptures in your futile attempt to support the Lies of the Roman Church of Emperor Constantine and her denominational daughters who were spawned from her lying spirit/teachings, before breaking away from their mother body to establish families of their own.

    BTW, It was not to the city of Ur, that Abrahams servant was sent to find a wife for his son Isaac, but to the town of Haran, where his younger brother Nahor lived.

    You've got to study that bible of yours a bit better youngen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beameup View Post
    The original poster seems to be confused about the two visitations in Bethlehem; the first at his birth by the shepherds and the second visitation by the "wise men".
    The first account has Jesus lying in a feeding-trough for animals and wrapped in cloth (believed to be the torn strips of cloth from the priests vesture, which were discarded), in the basement of the "inn".
    The second visitation could well have been some time later, when Jesus was a toddler. Since it was Joseph's "home town", there is every reason to believe that the family had moved into more permanent housing in Bethlehem.
    Nazareth was much farther north in Israel, at a "crossroads" or much traveled "junction" (trace the etymology of "nazar" or "natzar").
    Beameup, seems to be confusing the teachings of the Holy Scriptures, with the lying teachings of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.

    According to the scriptures in the Gospel of Luke, Jesus was born in a manger in Jerusalem, the shepherds came to visit him there, he was circumcised and named 8 days later, then 33 days after he was circumcised, when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished (Which was 33 days after the circumcision) they bought him to the temple in Jerusalem, (No wise men there and no slaughter of the innocents yet) and after performing everything according to the law of Moses, they returned to their home in Nazareth. See Luke 2: 39.

    The wise men, who, in the east had seen the star that had heralded the birth of Jesus, are believed to have been Astronomer/Astrologers from Mesopotamia. How long do you suppose that it would have taken them and their entourage, to travel from say, Babylon to Israel in those days?

    We know from the Book of Ezra 7: 8-9; that it took him 4 months to travel from Mesopotamia to Jerusalem, having left on the first day of the first month in the 7th year of the reign of Antaxerxes and arrived in Jerusalem on the first day of the 5th month.

    Mary and Joseph had long returned to the House in Nazareth, before the wise men had even got to the land of Judaea.

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