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Thread: Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

  1. #76
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Meaningless to the debate. And as far as the gospel and being revealed.....If I am lifted up I will draw all unto me.
    1) I have no problem with your accusation against Calvinism as you understand it.
    2) I believe He is lifted up. All will be drawn to Him one way or the other.
    3) His work on the cross is sufficient for all, rather this is a discussion about God's foreknowledge regarding that, so does touch upon the Open View discussion in that light.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  3. #77
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    Due to the fallen nature of man, including Christians, there will not be any unity until we are in heaven with Christ.

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    Evil.Eye.<(I)> (March 20th, 2017)

  5. #78
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    The gospel writer tells us what being lifted up meant. The Holy Spirit gave it to him. There is no believe or don't believe, although I am glad you believe.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  7. #79
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    At the beginning of my OP... just a few posts of mine in... I quote Jesus praying for our unity in Him. Is that prayer... "Meaningless"? I'll brb...


    In him is just that. The people I have heated debate with here are not in him. They are wolves and wolvettes.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  9. #80
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    In him is just that. The people I have heated debate with here are not in him. They are wolves and wolvettes.
    I understand your words clearly! You speak of those that elevate man above God, "our Lord, God and savior, Jesus Christ our only hope and salvation." You've seen me around... Scripture says those must be silenced!

    Exact words.

    So in that... all respect.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  10. #81
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  12. #82
    "That is why you Fail" Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
    Due to the fallen nature of man, including Christians, there will not be any unity until we are in heaven with Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    The gospel writer tells us what being lifted up meant. The Holy Spirit gave it to him. There is no believe or don't believe, although I am glad you believe.
    These are irrefutable truths.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  13. #83
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped
    I have always admired and appreciated Nick's use of the Word of God. We disagree theologically, but I've always admired that in scriptures, he's the real deal. -Lon
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

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  15. #84
    Eclectic Theosophist freelight's Avatar
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    Lightbulb foreknowledge and the future........

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    @freelight ,

    My good friend... Your input is welcome here.
    Thanks EE,

    I've engaged quite a bit on past threads on 'God and Time' (most of these thread are no longer extant),...and enjoy some explorations within both Open Theism and Process Theology,...the metaphysics involved and how it relates with free agency. As far as the future being OPEN to different possibilities and probabilities, indeed,...since I see all creation as unfolding as an ever-evolving open future. I hold that 'God' knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities, and since He is infinite, his knowledge (rightly termed 'omniscience') far exceeds our own limited finite knowledge which is limited by space-time, even if there are some aspects of the future that God does not FULLY know YET as an actualized reality, his infinity is all-encompassing.

    Infinity itself, since it has within it all the potentials and actuals of existence, contains all that is, was or ever will be,.... all dimensions of space-time emerge and spring from its womb. - so that even if some aspects of the future are not yet known, the INFINITE still includes and concludes all. - this still allows for the free agency of souls, as God is ever the 'Father-Mother' of the creative potential and possibiltiies of the matrix (as it were), so his will ultimately triumphs in the whole, even if parts defect or become disintegrated. - this would account for some souls who may suffer the second death (being disintegrated) while the greater whole including souls who choose life, move one to fulfill their creative purpose.

    At this point, I'd have to do more research/meditation upon what view I resonate with as far as the extent of God's foreknowledge or predication of future events, whether he can choose NOT to know some aspects or whether he actually is limited and cannot know certain aspects of the future because they are not knowable, and some other variables. Its a wonderful subject.

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  17. #85
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Open Theism is not at odd with "calvinism".
    Do Open Theists believe in the absolute sovereignty of God? Calvinists do.

    Calvinism is at odds with the gospel. Calvinism is a false gospel claiming they were saved because God declared them righteous beforehand.
    Please quote out of Calvinist testimonies or Reformed confessions, where the bolded above is stated as belief.

    As a Reformed believer, I can say this accusation is wrong. The Reformers believe only in imputed righteousness: Christ's righteousness alone that is acquired by faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ alone by the grace of God alone gifted at the moment of being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit alone.

    As long as the Reformed faith is unlovingly and misrepresented by Open Theists as you example, there will be no unity between our camps, I am sorry to say.
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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  19. #86
    Over 2500 post club daqq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Do Open Theists believe in the absolute sovereignty of God? Calvinists do.

    Please quote out of Calvinist testimonies or Reformed confessions, where the bolded above is stated as belief.

    As a Reformed believer, I can say this accusation is wrong. The Reformers believe only in imputed righteousness: Christ's righteousness alone that is acquired by faith in the righteousness of Jesus Christ alone by the grace of God alone gifted at the moment of being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit alone.

    As long as the Reformed faith is unlovingly and misrepresented by Open Theists as you example, there will be no unity between our camps, I am sorry to say.
    That is one of the reasons I said this is yet another lousy joke for a thread. All one needs to do is look a the wiki article on Open Theism to see that, theologically speaking, one of the greatest controversies of the twentieth century arose between Open Theism and Calvinism/Reformists. In fact that is just about exactly what one of the quotes from wiki says, "Roger E Olsaon said that open theism triggered the "most significant controversy about the doctrine of God in evangelical thought" in the late 20th and early 21st centuries", (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism), and if you read further down in that link it is plain as day who the two main parties are in that dispute. So essentially the OP says that he has "buried the hatchet" with Reformers and Calvinists but now proceeds to post this thread, "Calling all Open Theists", knowing that Open Theism is diametrically opposed to the Calvinist and Reform understanding of the Sovereignty of God. It is really just too outrageous for me to believe that the OP is actually trying to mend such deep theological differences that have gone on for as long as they have already; no, but rather, the OP does appear to get his kicks out of controversy and uproar, just as he has shown time and time again: it appears that chaos is king in his world, and the more controversy the better, and therefore this choice of current thread topic. It is a waste of time because tomorrow he will likely be proclaiming something else of a totally different belief system simply for the controversy, notoriety, and attention. Okay, I'm back out now, enjoy the unity party.

  20. #87
    TOL Subscriber Eagles Wings's Avatar
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    Purposeful agitators at TOL?

    How dastardly!
    Historic Church Documents
    The Apostles' Creed.....The Nicene Creed.....The Athanasian Creed.....Definition of Chalcedon


    http://www.reformed.org/documents/

    Romans 8:28
    We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

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  22. #88
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daqq View Post
    That is one of the reasons I said this is yet another lousy joke for a thread. All one needs to do is look a the wiki article on Open Theism to see that, theologically speaking, one of the greatest controversies of the twentieth century arose between Open Theism and Calvinism/Reformists. In fact that is just about exactly what one of the quotes from wiki says, "Roger E Olsaon said that open theism triggered the "most significant controversy about the doctrine of God in evangelical thought" in the late 20th and early 21st centuries", (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism), and if you read further down in that link it is plain as day who the two main parties are in that dispute. So essentially the OP says that he has "buried the hatchet" with Reformers and Calvinists but now proceeds to post this thread, "Calling all Open Theists", knowing that Open Theism is diametrically opposed to the Calvinist and Reform understanding of the Sovereignty of God. It is really just too outrageous for me to believe that the OP is actually trying to mend such deep theological differences that have gone on for as long as they have already; no, but rather, the OP does appear to get his kicks out of controversy and uproar, just as he has shown time and time again: it appears that chaos is king in his world, and the more controversy the better, and therefore this choice of current thread topic. It is a waste of time because tomorrow he will likely be proclaiming something else of a totally different belief system simply for the controversy, notoriety, and attention. Okay, I'm back out now, enjoy the unity party.
    At best, EE seeks attention and a high-scoring thread. At worst, EE desires to influence and suck Calvinists down, and to drown, in a thick muck of heretical controversy . . .only with the old and lame temptation of "unity through love ."

    Don't know about my Reformed brethren, but I was (definitely) not born yesterday!
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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  24. #89
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagles Wings View Post
    Purposeful agitators at TOL?

    How dastardly!
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

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  26. #90
    LIFETIME MEMBER meshak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    At best, EE seeks attention and a high-scoring thread. At worst, EE desires to influence and suck Calvinists down, and to drown, in a thick muck of heretical controversy . . .only with the old and lame temptation of "unity through love ."

    Don't know about my Reformed brethren, but I was (definitely) not born yesterday!
    What?

    You are not going to join unity party with EE like your fellow brother Lon?

    I think AMR joined EE and Lon too.

    You are the next one that EE will silence you with his usual flattering tactic.

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