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Thread: Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

  1. #106
    Silver Member glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Indeed.


    Jesus.
    John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9;John 17:22; John 18:9

    AMR
    Uh oh....Is this some secret code or are my eyes crossing?

    Great....it's not there on my copy.

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  3. #107
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Indeed.


    Jesus.
    John 6:37; John 6:39; John 10:29; John 17:11-12; John 17:9; John 17:22; John 18:9

    AMR
    AMR...

    Thank you for forgiving me and contributing so positively here! I look forward to being sharpened by your wisdom and knowledge... but editing in... your willingness to forgive me after I was so unruly has taught me more than I can express!... your patience is clear as well.

    Honestly... I'm tearing up!

    - Sincerely and Appreciatively... <(PW)>

    Editing in... I absolutely Love the verses you cited from John! Amen!!!

    37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

    29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

    Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I …

    9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.

    22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

    9 that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; March 20th, 2017 at 11:55 PM.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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  5. #108
    ☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) ☜☜☜☞☞☞☞ A Calvinist! ☜☜☜☜☜☜ Ask Mr. Religion's Avatar
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    Lightbulb God's Omniscience

    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Open Theists do not believe in the total omniscience of God.
    Well, the open theist will re-define the traditionally understood meaning of the term, omniscience. For the open theist, omniscience means that God knows all there is to know. In that statement what is left unsaid until questioned, is that "all there is to know" implies that God does not know the future for the future has not yet happened.

    In fact, per the open theist view, God did not know (knowledge grounded in actualities) the exact words I have and am typing right this moment until I have completed doing so. Now, per the open theist, God is very, very, smart, so He can predict with a high degree of certainty what I may exactly type out on the page here, but this is still probabilistic knowledge, mathematically, P less than 1. This is in accordance with the general open theism view that God can sometimes get things wrong, but is smart enough to regroup and recover such that His ultimate aims are going to be realized.

    On the other hand, the non-open theist affirms that God knows past, present, and future equally vividly because His knowledge of past, present, and future is grounded in the fact that God has ordained all that has, is, or will happen. Hence, God genuinely knows. God does not predict the future based upon past and present knowledge, per the open theist, rather God knows the future for He has ordained all that has, is, or will happen.

    The caution here for any discussion of any belief systems is to make certain all parties are clearly defining their terms, as groups will use the same terms, giving a sense that lots of "common ground" exists, yet the terms being used mean something very different than what is commonly understood.

    AMR
    WARNING: Embedded link content that may be in my post above or the many embedded links my sig below are not for the faint of heart.



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  7. #109
    TOL Subscriber Nang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    All to easy....
    Nick,

    My words you quote here, define the doctrine of Election as it is revealed in Ephesians 1:3-6. It is only by being chosen for redemption in Christ, and by the grace of God, that any of us are accepted in the Beloved. (vs 6)

    Election has to do with God saving sinners . . not God declaring some righteous before creation. (B57 might teach this, but it is not the orthodox Reformed view.)

    Paul, in the next chapter makes this clear. He teaches we are all sinners and dead in our trespasses; without any righteousness at all. Ephesians 2:1-10

    Only by the will and grace of God are we imputed with Christ's righteousness unto salvation. That is why Paul says in Eph. 2:10, that those elected unto redemption are "His workmanship."
    "The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

    " The difference between faith and saving faith are the propositions believed."
    Gordon H. Clark

    "If a man be lost, God must not have the blame for it; but if a man be saved, God must have the glory of it."
    Charles Spurgeon

  8. #110
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    As usual, we need to recap for the misdirection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Calvinism is at odds with the gospel. Calvinism is a false gospel claiming they were saved because God declared them righteous beforehand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Please quote out of Calvinist testimonies or Reformed confessions, where the bolded above is stated as belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    God never rejected the reprobate according to His foreknowledge of their actions. God rejects reprobates according to His will.
    God formed all men, either for dishonor or honor, according to His willful purposes and good pleasure.
    To reject this truth is disbelief and a rejection of Sovereign God Himself.

    Nang says reprehensible things. I say nang says reprehensible things. Nang says no I don't, show me. So I do. Nang follows with Paul not saying what she says.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Nick,

    My words you quote here, define the doctrine of Election as it is revealed in Ephesians 1:3-6.
    Ephesians 1 is about the Body of Christ, not selected individuals that you have no idea you belong. It was predetermined about the Body, not who would be in it.

    13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  10. #111
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Good Morning AMR, ( @Ask Mr. Religion ... Spoilers Added )

    I'm going to try to share my counter view, but without using the kind of speech that is gruff and incompatible with sensible debate. I respect the clarity you used to express your perception of Open Theism's conceptualization of Omniscience. I have a counter view and I believe it is more on par with the matter. You know how some matters can be misunderstood in theologies from differing perspective... I think this is one of those instances. To say that God "Limited" Himself seems absurd... but... I indeed see that He did so in many... Many passages in scripture. (Php. 2:8) is my quick... go to example. (Humbled and bond servant... yet fully God with us and (Is. 9:6))

    Temporal (Within Time / Sincere Relationship, Moment by Moment) / A-Temporal (Beyond Time / Full Omniscience) The Open Theist understands God as capable of being genuinely within time and outside of time at the same moment. In this... The Triune is afforded the ability to relate to man in a genuinely relational way that allows God within Time to experience things, without suppressing the natural flow of choice and relationship.

    Open Theism sees God as Beyond all things, yet within them at the same time. Articulated to Lon here. (Link Here)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Well, the open theist will re-define the traditionally understood meaning of the term, omniscience. For the open theist, omniscience means that God knows all there is to know.
    I disagree with this statement. I'm an Open Theist and I don't redefine "Omniscience". I actually agree with your cited "Non-open Theist" definition. In-fact... I'm certain that all Open Theists would as well, thus... it's not really a "Non-Open Theist view".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    On the other hand, the non-open theist affirms that God knows past, present, and future equally vividly because His knowledge of past, present, and future is grounded in the fact that God has ordained all that has, is, or will happen. Hence, God genuinely knows. God does not predict the future based upon past and present knowledge, per the open theist, rather God knows the future for He has ordained all that has, is, or will happen.
    When the Open Theist speaks of Omniscience and God... they understand the Triunity of God in precision clarity that can almost be misunderstood as "Modalism"... this was my first clue that I am an Open Theist. The Open Theist says; "God intentionally limits His Foreknowledge" for the sake of Free Will, Sincere Relationship and connection to humanity, in a way that again allows "moment to moment" relationship.

    The following Spoiler is on my perception of "what I mean", when I say God is 100% Omniscient, but limited His foreknowledge.
    Spoiler
    Allow me to begin to clarify...

    I am suggesting that God is utterly limitless, but ensured free Will would reign within creation, out of Love and sincerity. God knew that creation was different than Himself, the Creator and separated His omniscience from Creation... through the Son, who the Bible clearly says, "All things were made by, through and for".

    I further state that Hebrews 4 links Jesus Death, Burial and Ressurection to Creation ... via the true meaning of Sabbath rest. "It is finished" is a Creation statement, statement of a debt paid in full and the words from the "Memra" that show our Debt of "Sin" is Paid in full.

    I will leave this scripture for today to show a fraction of what I am conveying...

    (Luke 14:28) Note: A tower is only half way up. Man can only build a religion or Tower of Babel (Gen. 11:3f, 4f) that never reaches God.

    However, Jesus is our stairway that connects "Heaven and Earth". (Gen. 28:12)

    He is our "Tree of Life".

    God Created us and as scripture says... (Eph. 1:4)
    A more rough and zoomed out way of expressing this would be... Here...
    Spoiler
    OPEN and SINCERE RELATIONSHIP - Love, Relationship; This is another major point. All through Scripture, God explains that His entire purpose of Creation is for "His Son". We also know the SON as the LOGOS and very "WORD, PROMISE, ROCK, PILLAR OF FIRE BY NIGHT, CLOUD BY DAY... Etc". We are assured in scripture that God has had a Father, Son relationship that is ETERNAL. When Jesus describes the coming of the Comforter... We have other verses that distinguish the "Comforter" as (Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19 and so on), but a really mysterious set of verses are (John 10:30 and John 14:23). This suggests that the Holy Spirit is the very unity of Jesus the Son with His Father, within us! Within our HEARTS! If this isn't the most intimate relationship in my life, I don't know what else could be. My Point? God demonstrates His desire for sincere Relationship with us in EVERY Word of Scripture. Of-coarse, the biggest proof verse is (John 5:39f) and a the very lengths that Jesus went to so He could dwell in our Hearts! (Heb. 2:14)

    OPEN WITHIN TIME - If one ponders that God limited His foreknowledge through His Son, all of those pesky doctrines that struggle to explain how God isn't a tyrant, but created a "Free" system that allowed Evil to manifest itself within said system, fall away. It becomes simple. The Son has always been the limited in foreknowledge presence of God within Time. This concept genuinely exonerates ONE that needed no exoneration in the first place. This also solidifies that the Theophanies in scripture are no Less than the LOGOS, Eternal SON that is truly Blameless!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    In that statement what is left unsaid until questioned, is that "all there is to know" implies that God does not know the future for the future has not yet happened.
    I see the Father as the Architect and the Son as the Builder. This agrees with ALL scripture. The link to Lon... above... articulates this well. To make this brief... I see the Holy Spirit as the unifying "member" of the GodHead that connects the Father and the Son. (God can provide the Son with Omniscient matters that are crucial to human survival and ultimate, ARCHITECTURAL outcome.

    The following Spoiler is from myself, on @Bright Raven 's Trinity Thread towards another ToL member.
    Spoiler

    Would you agree that we are...

    (Mind/Spirit)
    (Body)
    (Soul)

    ... as Human beings?

    Could you call your Soul your Spirit, or your Body your Soul? Could you call the Spirit the Body?

    Could it be that we are made in HIS image, but His infinite Existence can do things, our created existence can't?

    As in... All one, but God's "Body" (Memra/Logos/Son) can be in a Location, while God's (Spirit/Father/Mind) is literally EVERYWHERE.

    Consider this... The Holy Spirit equates to the very (SOUL) of God. Thus... when Jesus says... I am in my Father and my Father is in Me... He is saying (My Father and I share the very same SOUL)...

    Only ONE GOD! But... God's Soul... (The Holy Spirit)... Again is Divine and can indwell over a billion people at one time per (Ephesians 1:13) and yet, only the (SPIRIT - Gen. 1:2 and TRUTH - John 14:6) in light of ... (John 4:24; 1;1; 10:30; John 14:11)... Are referenced in (John 10:30) and are the ACTUAL PRESENCE of GOD...

    God indwells us per, Romans 8:9, but that doesn't make us God, just because God's Holy Spirit (Soul) resides within us because of God's miraculous work of Creation and Salvation (Ephesians 2:8f)

    What does this insanity mean? It means Jesus is AWESOME and Incomprehensible... yet He has provided His (Holy Spirit, that we might grasp a bit to come and Spiritually Comprehend a fraction of the infinite we will never fully understand after an infinity!

    God's TriUne Being is uniqe to our TriUne being. In specific terms... God is Ultimately (Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent).

    God is Disembodied and within Body at the Same time... (Examples... Ex. 33:18-23 and 1 Timothy 3:16)

    That is Divine. We can't get hung up on simple human thinking... He is genuinely (TRI) and (UNE)

    The following spoiler contains a quote from
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Here
    It is about the "Change" of the "Temporal" Relational "Person"/"expression" of the GodHead Guard (So to Speak)
    Spoiler
    He says the Spirit of Love will grow Cold at the time and Jesus said that only the Father knows the day.

    Open Theism isn't daft in a way that it would allow that one verse to overturn it. I believe Open Theism implies the Son or Holy Spirit are limited in foreknowledge... depending on their place of relationship, per biblical time, yet the Father remains fully Omniscient.

    From Gen. 1:3 (John 8:12 ... world is "Kosmo ... universe usage connected to Kosmos) to Luke 23:46... then... Matthew 27:52 (Heb. 11:40)... then... Matthew 28:2 to Acts 1:9...

    Change of Divine Guard, yet the Father remained within all... as He is the very omnipresence of the GodHead.

    Acts 1:4 to Acts 2:2f ... Human change of Guard starts with a man in Acts 9

    This is my view... on the "Open Matter".


    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    In fact, per the open theist view, God did not know (knowledge grounded in actualities) the exact words I have and am typing right this moment until I have completed doing so. Now, per the open theist, God is very, very, smart, so He can predict with a high degree of certainty what I may exactly type out on the page here, but this is still probabilistic knowledge, mathematically, P less than 1. This is in accordance with the general open theism view that God can sometimes get things wrong, but is smart enough to regroup and recover such that His ultimate aims are going to be realized.
    I fully disagree with this statement. God never makes mistakes, but He clearly wanted "Free Will" to be fostered in Creation, so He could "genuinely" Love and be Loved... and relate in a Non-Mechanical... Non-Predetermined fashion that involves specific intervention in human lives and time with specific response to relationship and overall, temporal necessity.

    The Flood and the words... "The Spirit of the Lord was Grieved" that He had made man... is very black and white. NO OTHER VIEW OF THEOLOGY MAKES THESE WORDS GENUINE. Open Theology makes these words sincere and compassionate! God saw mankind destroying itself and by the Father... was made aware that only 8 must be spared, or Human extinction would occur. We have New Testament evidence of this, in reference to the RETURN of the KING... (Matthew 24:22)

    God the Father is removed from omniscient dealings with man by the "Temporal" relation of the Son. Your co-collaboration of the TriUne becomes enormously evident in the Open View. This truly removes the burden of guilt from God for Evil existing in our universe! This is the most important aspect of the Open View. To insinuate that God "Ordained" evil, or "Created" evil in any fashion... is a contradiction of ALL scripture.

    Open View is highly scriptural and enormously misunderstood!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    The caution here for any discussion of any belief systems is to make certain all parties are clearly defining their terms, as groups will use the same terms, giving a sense that lots of "common ground" exists, yet the terms being used mean something very different than what is commonly understood.

    AMR
    I wish I had more time to clarify... but I have to head off to a new chapter in my life. I hope to add to this response more, and deeply appreciate your dialogue here that is forcing me to go deeper into scripture for articulation and clarification.

    - All Christian Love and Respect...

    - EE
    Last edited by Evil.Eye.<(I)>; March 21st, 2017 at 03:11 PM.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  11. #112
    TOL Subscriber Eagles Wings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    The fact that you aren't "loved", Nang, has nothing to do with your particular beliefs, but with your snooty, know-it-all, and often snarky manner.
    There is nothing in her manner that is uncommon to each of us here.

    Witness the daily strife.
    Last edited by Eagles Wings; March 21st, 2017 at 10:19 AM.
    Historic Church Documents
    The Apostles' Creed.....The Nicene Creed.....The Athanasian Creed.....Definition of Chalcedon


    http://www.reformed.org/documents/

    Romans 8:28
    We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

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  13. #113
    LIFETIME MEMBER Bright Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Well, the open theist will re-define the traditionally understood meaning of the term, omniscience. For the open theist, omniscience means that God knows all there is to know. In that statement what is left unsaid until questioned, is that "all there is to know" implies that God does not know the future for the future has not yet happened.

    In fact, per the open theist view, God did not know (knowledge grounded in actualities) the exact words I have and am typing right this moment until I have completed doing so. Now, per the open theist, God is very, very, smart, so He can predict with a high degree of certainty what I may exactly type out on the page here, but this is still probabilistic knowledge, mathematically, P less than 1. This is in accordance with the general open theism view that God can sometimes get things wrong, but is smart enough to regroup and recover such that His ultimate aims are going to be realized.

    On the other hand, the non-open theist affirms that God knows past, present, and future equally vividly because His knowledge of past, present, and future is grounded in the fact that God has ordained all that has, is, or will happen. Hence, God genuinely knows. God does not predict the future based upon past and present knowledge, per the open theist, rather God knows the future for He has ordained all that has, is, or will happen.

    The caution here for any discussion of any belief systems is to make certain all parties are clearly defining their terms, as groups will use the same terms, giving a sense that lots of "common ground" exists, yet the terms being used mean something very different than what is commonly understood.

    AMR
    It is still an infringement on the perfection of God. He knows the totality of all things past, present and future. That is the meaning of omniscience.

    From got questions.org

    Omniscience is defined as “the state of having total knowledge, the quality of knowing everything.” For God to be sovereign over His creation of all things, whether visible or invisible, He has to be all-knowing. His omniscience is not restricted to any one person in the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all by nature omniscient.

    God knows everything (1 John 3:20). He knows not only the minutest details of our lives but those of everything around us, for He mentions even knowing when a sparrow falls or when we lose a single hair (Matthew 10:29-30). Not only does God know everything that will occur until the end of history itself (Isaiah 46:9-10), but He also knows our very thoughts, even before we speak forth (Psalm 139:4). He knows our hearts from afar; He even saw us in the womb (Psalm 139:1-3, 15-16). Solomon expresses this truth perfectly when he says, “For you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind” (1 Kings 8:39).

    Despite the condescension of the Son of God to empty Himself and make Himself nothing (Philippians 2:7), His omniscience is clearly seen in the New Testament writings. The first prayer of the apostles in Acts 1:24, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart,” implies Jesus’ omniscience, which is necessary if He is to be able to receive petitions and intercede at God’s right hand. On earth, Jesus’ omniscience is just as clear. In many Gospel accounts, He knew the thoughts of his audience (Matthew 9:4; 12:25; Mark 2:6-8; Luke 6:8). He knew about people’s lives before He had even met them. When He met the woman collecting water at the well at Sychar, He said to her, “The fact is you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband” (John 4:18). He also tells His disciples that their friend Lazarus was dead, although He was over 25 miles away from Lazarus’s home (John 11:11-15). He advised the disciples to go and make preparation for the Lord’s Supper, describing the person they were to meet and follow (Mark 14:13-15). Perhaps best of all, He knew Nathanael before ever meeting him, for He knew his heart (John 1:47-48).

    Clearly, we observe Jesus’ omniscience on earth, but this is where the paradox begins as well. Jesus asks questions, which imply the absence of knowledge, although the Lord asks questions more for the benefit of His audience than for Himself. However, there is another facet regarding His omniscience that comes from the limitations of the human nature which He, as Son of God, assumed. We read that as a man He “grew in wisdom and stature” (Luke 2:52) and that He learned “obedience through suffering” (Hebrews 5:8). We also read that He did not know when the world would be brought to an end (Matthew 24:34-36). We, therefore, have to ask, why would the Son not know this, if He knew everything else? Rather than regarding this as just a human limitation, we should regard it as a controlled lack of knowledge. This was a self-willed act of humility in order to share fully in our nature (Philippians 2:6-11; Hebrews 2:17) and to be the Second Adam.

    Finally, there is nothing too hard for an omniscient God, and it is on the basis of our faith in such a God that we can rest secure in Him, knowing that He promises never to fail us as long as we continue in Him. He has known us from eternity, even before creation. God knew you and me, where we would appear in the course of time, and whom we would interact with. He even foresaw our sin in all its ugliness and depravity, yet, in love, He set his seal upon us and drew us to that love in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:3-6). We shall see Him face to face, but our knowledge of Him will never be complete. Our wonder, love and praise of Him shall go on for all millennia as we bask in the rays of His heavenly love, learning and appreciating more and more of our omniscient God.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    I believe that both omniscience and omnipresence are based off God's omnipotence. He can choose to know everything in the past, present and future only when He chooses to. That shouldn't be something uncontrollable. He has the ability to choose not to know things He (His will) doesn't want to know. If His this will cannot be realized, then He's not omnipotent.

    Similarly, He cannot everywhere as long as He chooses to. He has the ability not to be somewhere (such as the burning hell) He (His will) doesn't want to be. If His this will cannot be realized, then He's not omnipotent.

    He can (by will and ability) know everything in the past, present and future. He can (by will and ability) be in anywhere and everywhere. That's His omniscience and omnipresence. If by His will He doesn't want to stay in the burning hell to know how the wicked are, He CAN!!!

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  17. #115
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Here goes... @Ask Mr. Religion and @Lon

    AMR knows this and so does Lon. They are "Calvinists", but they know Calvin was no more then a forgiven sinner that ached to further the cause of reform.

    AMR and Lon can drop Calvinism in a heartbeat, but their HEARTBEAT is still Jesus. They know the difference between "The Baby" and "The Bathwater"!

    Unfortunately... some people like ... "we'll keep it at some people" worship the words and message of Calvin, but AMR and Lon aren't guilty of this!
    I agree, although for MAD, it does touch on Salvation issues, he is correct.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    They know He is He! They are righteous in His name, for His Name and By His Name, alone! Is not the "Open Theist" and the "Calvinist" saved by the same "grace" that flows beyond measure? We all get in Jesus Christ's way! That's the flesh repressing the Spirit! So what! We're imperfect! The Spirit of Reform dwells in the truely Reformed and I believe AMR and Lon know that all is not revealed from scripture yet, thus they would humbly admit that we are all just in Love with Jesus and looking everywhere we can to understand the majestic King of kings that dwells within us as our (Ephesians 1:13)



    I was baptized in the Name of Jesus!

    @Nick M
    @Lon
    @Ask Mr. Religion
    Thanks AMR, I had missed the questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Who saved you?
    The Lord Jesus Christ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Who's Name were you baptized Under? (Acts 19:5)
    The Lord Jesus Christ {but realize MAD doesn't do this}.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Please answer with one word each of you and see if we are as different as we say.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  18. #116
    Black Rifles Matter Nick M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil.Eye.<(I)> View Post
    Please consider your time on this thread an act of mercy and if you would like to scripturally enlighten me... I would be deeply appreciative. (I am sincere on this matter)

    - EE
    Let me get straight to the point with what this wretched person thinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    God never rejected the reprobate according to His foreknowledge of their actions. God rejects reprobates according to His will.
    God formed all men, either for dishonor or honor, according to His willful purposes and good pleasure.
    To reject this truth is disbelief and a rejection of Sovereign God Himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    It is those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life that are reprobate and who will deservedly suffer hellfire
    Said another way, God created them to go to hell and suffer and they deserve it because God said so, not because of what the person will do.

    It gets worse. She rejects that sin was forgiven at the cross.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nang View Post
    Faith pleases God but it does not merit forgiveness.
    Sinners are forgiven because they are first chosen by the Father by name in Christ, because Christ died for them, and because the Holy Spirit raises them to new spiritual life.
    Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Titus 1

    For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

    Ephesians 5

    11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

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  20. #117
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    Let me get straight to the point with what this wretched person thinks.

    Said another way, God created them to go to hell and suffer and they deserve it because God said so, not because of what the person will do.

    It gets worse. She rejects that sin was forgiven at the cross.
    Nick,

    In light of (Mt. 12:37) ... their quoted words are dangerous to them. I acknowledge your point and fully agree with you. A strong solution offered towards this individual would be to read (Php. 2:12) and understand all of James Chapter 2, in the context of God's limitless Love and Indiscriminate Grace. (1 John 4:18 and John 15:12) would be wise for this person to understand, as they desire to teach others (with good intention, but appear to be in need of some theological revision).

    - All Grace and Christ's Love to you...

    - EE
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  21. #118
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    I agree, although for MAD, it does touch on Salvation issues, he is correct.
    Thanks AMR, I had missed the questions.
    The Lord Jesus Christ.
    The Lord Jesus Christ
    Amen and Praise HIM!!!! Our collective understandings may, sometimes clamor and clang, but His name rises above it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    {but realize MAD doesn't do this}.
    I don't understand this point, but... it sounds like you have debate experience and know something that I don't. I would only fully accept this point if an actual... representative of MAD wanted to express their response to this. That way, we would have it from the "horses mouth". I am dispensationial, but I am not a full Mid Acts Dispensationalist. I would be interested in understanding what you mean by this, simply for the sake of understanding.

    - EE
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  22. #119
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkins View Post
    I believe that both omniscience and omnipresence are based off God's omnipotence. He can choose to know everything in the past, present and future only when He chooses to. That shouldn't be something uncontrollable. He has the ability to choose not to know things He (His will) doesn't want to know. If His this will cannot be realized, then He's not omnipotent.

    Similarly, He cannot everywhere as long as He chooses to. He has the ability not to be somewhere (such as the burning hell) He (His will) doesn't want to be. If His this will cannot be realized, then He's not omnipotent.

    He can (by will and ability) know everything in the past, present and future. He can (by will and ability) be in anywhere and everywhere. That's His omniscience and omnipresence. If by His will He doesn't want to stay in the burning hell to know how the wicked are, He CAN!!!
    Omnipotence as the pre-cursor... then (Omniscience and Omnipresence) as qualified to be at the Will of God, in light of Omnipotence.

    The emboldened and in red text is a fair argument and and reminiscent of the old argument as a kid.

    Can God make a box too heavy for God to lift or too small to fit in?

    The champion answer is always... God can do as God pleases. (Psalm 115:3)

    As far as the box that is too small... God would most likely fit into it, then spring back and say (1 Ki. 8:27)
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

  23. #120
    Silver Member Evil.Eye.<(I)>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    It is still an infringement on the perfection of God. He knows the totality of all things past, present and future. That is the meaning of omniscience.

    From got questions.org

    Omniscience is defined as “the state of having total knowledge, the quality of knowing everything.” For God to be sovereign over His creation of all things, whether visible or invisible, He has to be all-knowing. His omniscience is not restricted to any one person in the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all by nature omniscient.

    God knows everything (1 John 3:20). He knows not only the minutest details of our lives but those of everything around us, for He mentions even knowing when a sparrow falls or when we lose a single hair (Matthew 10:29-30). Not only does God know everything that will occur until the end of history itself (Isaiah 46:9-10), but He also knows our very thoughts, even before we speak forth (Psalm 139:4). He knows our hearts from afar; He even saw us in the womb (Psalm 139:1-3, 15-16). Solomon expresses this truth perfectly when he says, “For you, you only, know the hearts of all the children of mankind” (1 Kings 8:39).

    Despite the condescension of the Son of God to empty Himself and make Himself nothing (Philippians 2:7), His omniscience is clearly seen in the New Testament writings. The first prayer of the apostles in Acts 1:24, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart,” implies Jesus’ omniscience, which is necessary if He is to be able to receive petitions and intercede at God’s right hand. On earth, Jesus’ omniscience is just as clear. In many Gospel accounts, He knew the thoughts of his audience (Matthew 9:4; 12:25; Mark 2:6-8; Luke 6:8). He knew about people’s lives before He had even met them. When He met the woman collecting water at the well at Sychar, He said to her, “The fact is you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband” (John 4:18). He also tells His disciples that their friend Lazarus was dead, although He was over 25 miles away from Lazarus’s home (John 11:11-15). He advised the disciples to go and make preparation for the Lord’s Supper, describing the person they were to meet and follow (Mark 14:13-15). Perhaps best of all, He knew Nathanael before ever meeting him, for He knew his heart (John 1:47-48).

    Clearly, we observe Jesus’ omniscience on earth, but this is where the paradox begins as well. Jesus asks questions, which imply the absence of knowledge, although the Lord asks questions more for the benefit of His audience than for Himself. However, there is another facet regarding His omniscience that comes from the limitations of the human nature which He, as Son of God, assumed. We read that as a man He “grew in wisdom and stature” (Luke 2:52) and that He learned “obedience through suffering” (Hebrews 5:8). We also read that He did not know when the world would be brought to an end (Matthew 24:34-36). We, therefore, have to ask, why would the Son not know this, if He knew everything else? Rather than regarding this as just a human limitation, we should regard it as a controlled lack of knowledge. This was a self-willed act of humility in order to share fully in our nature (Philippians 2:6-11; Hebrews 2:17) and to be the Second Adam.

    Finally, there is nothing too hard for an omniscient God, and it is on the basis of our faith in such a God that we can rest secure in Him, knowing that He promises never to fail us as long as we continue in Him. He has known us from eternity, even before creation. God knew you and me, where we would appear in the course of time, and whom we would interact with. He even foresaw our sin in all its ugliness and depravity, yet, in love, He set his seal upon us and drew us to that love in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:3-6). We shall see Him face to face, but our knowledge of Him will never be complete. Our wonder, love and praise of Him shall go on for all millennia as we bask in the rays of His heavenly love, learning and appreciating more and more of our omniscient God.
    Bright Raven,

    I love everything you have said here!!! I also agree with everything you have said here.

    I take the label "Open Theist", but I express matters differently than the "Open Theist (Re-definition) of Omicience" that AMR gave. I replied back, and i genuinely appreciate all of the dynamic and exhaustive interaction that is occurring by yourself, AMR, Lon, Nick M, FL and many others here.

    -He is our (Matthew 19:21) and He is indeed makes it easy for us to say... (Luke 2:14)

    - EE

    God uses all of us to sharpen one another and I thank Him for this opportunity to Grow in Him by the scriptural challenge of Siblings in Him.
    Open (Beyond Time ...1 Ki. 8:27) Relational to us within Time (John 1:1)
    Dispensational (2 Ti. 2:15)
    It's All About Jesus and He's the theology (John 5:39f)
    Biblical (2 Ti. 3:16)
    Zionist (Rm. 11:25-36)
    There is only one Commentary!
    (1 John 2:27; Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Mt. 23:8)

    Salvation is Free (Eph. 2:8f) !!! It depends on his strength, not mine!!! (2 Co. 12:9)

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