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Thread: And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    Your line of thinking makes sense for an anarchist. No one should be forced to do anything they don't agree with. No government - no one can be forced against their will, at least idealistically speaking.

    So that doesn't work in a democracy. The will of the people, which is the majority, make decisions that some will not like but must follow or be penalized. The best for the most served is the idea. In the US the minority can and will be heard (1st amendment) so that is an advantage. And if they can make a convincing argument it might persuade the majority which is what we see all the time.

    All the current "ugliness" is democracy at work. As long as we stick with our principles as found in the Constitution we will come out better. If our balance of power and media are beat into submission, then our grand 1776 journey may be ending and we will be like most other countries.
    We are not a democracy. What you just described is the basis for governance in North Korea.

    We are a republic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain


    If that person has a family, or at least one that cares. Short of employing them in a family business or bailing them out with funds (if they have them) then what exactly would you suggest.
    By the time you have to bail them out or employ them, most of the things a family can do should already have been done. I wasn't thinking of the family as a safety valve which is also what they can do.

    Many people in our social safety network did not have the type of family that is most effective at producing happy productive members of society.

    A loving responsible father is absolutely essential for this type of family.

    But even after children have started their own families, the original family can do many things to get them back on their feet and prevent them from becoming part of the social safety net.

    Women and children can be provided for while the father can seek employment nationwide or even worldwide if he has skills. Tying yourself down to one locale is what prevents families from having the best possible job available or even a decent paying job.


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    TOL Legend Arthur Brain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    What is plenty? A handful?

    Is it really a good system if only one of every 1000 in the system ever improves their life to a point of self sustainability?
    Where are you pulling that figure from? Even if you were just applying that to those capable of working it wouldn't add up. Lots of people find themselves out of work at some point and rely on benefits to subsist in the interim so where are you getting this from?
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I hope it doesn't pass, then we can all watch Obamacare collapse and the demoncrats will take the blame. Let them scramble to replace it
    Thanks for encapsulating what's wrong with the Republican party and has been for a very long time. Horribly skewed priorities.

    Speaking of which, did you hear the one about the president who wanted to invest in building up the strongest military on earth while cutting head start programs for underprivileged kids and meals on wheels for the elderly?

    I hear it's all the rage in hell.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain



    How? Work doesn't magically become available because you're part of a church and while charity may be available to those that are it would only go so far if that's all the aid that was available.

    A church will provide all your essential needs if you have been a proven member for a long time. They also have many members who are employed who have information on where jobs are. Some members will even share their home with you if you are deemed to be sincerely in need.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    By the time you have to bail them out or employ them, most of the things a family can do should already have been done. I wasn't thinking of the family as a safety valve which is also what they can do.

    Many people in our social safety network did not have the type of family that is most effective at producing happy productive members of society.

    A loving responsible father is absolutely essential for this type of family.

    But even after children have started their own families, the original family can do many things to get them back on their feet and prevent them from becoming part of the social safety net.

    Women and children can be provided for while the father can seek employment nationwide or even worldwide if he has skills. Tying yourself down to one locale is what prevents families from having the best possible job available or even a decent paying job.
    Once again, not everybody has a loving family and I dunno where you're at but there's a dearth of employment in several areas and removing a safety net for those out of work would only up the poverty rate. You seem more interested in some platitudinous, rose tinted view of society rather than a realistic one.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Where are you pulling that figure from? Even if you were just applying that to those capable of working it wouldn't add up. Lots of people find themselves out of work at some point and rely on benefits to subsist in the interim so where are you getting this from?
    Why don't you give me some numbers? Where are you getting your ideas from? How many of every 1000 who enter the social safety system ever find their way to self sustainability?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    A church will provide all your essential needs if you have been a proven member for a long time. They also have many members who are employed who have information on where jobs are. Some members will even share their home with you if you are deemed to be sincerely in need.
    As much as such charity is admirable it still seems to be dependent on factors such as membership etc. Once again, not everyone - in fact the majority of people are not long term members of a church.
    Well this is fun isn't it?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Once again, not everybody has a loving family and I dunno where you're at but there's a dearth of employment in several areas and removing a safety net for those out of work would only up the poverty rate. You seem more interested in some platitudinous, rose tinted view of society rather than a realistic one.
    Not everyone has a loving family is true. Stop and think about that though before automatically going to welfare is the only answer. Society should create an atmosphere that makes that kind of family almost an inevitability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Why don't you give me some numbers? Where are you getting your ideas from? How many of every 1000 who enter the social safety system ever find their way to self sustainability?
    You made the arbitrary claim, the onus is on you to back it up, so get on with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Not everyone has a loving family is true. Stop and think about that though before automatically going to welfare is the only answer. Society should create an atmosphere that makes that kind of family almost an inevitability.
    Again, platitudes. There's no such thing as the 'American Dream' where everyone has some idyllic family and live in a lovely house surrounded by white picket fences...For some people welfare/benefits is the only way to have anything to live on and you remove that you escalate poverty a hundred fold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    It's a very substantial amount because government is an inefficient way of improving people's lot in life. It's a huge waste of money when compared to how little it really takes to improve ones lot in life.
    Then that's just yet another sound bite. You clearly have no idea what it's like for people on the lower end of the ladder even with the safety nets for the poor in place.

    The social worker is the one who visits the household to determine if all rules are being followed and to throw men out of the house and fine them.
    Um, no. Dunno where you're getting that from...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Why don't you give me some numbers? Where are you getting your ideas from? How many of every 1000 who enter the social safety system ever find their way to self sustainability?
    WASHINGTON — Most poor people who avail themselves of a U.S. government safety net program are off benefits within three years, according to a government survey that tracked individual people over time.

    Of the one-in-five Americans who participated in a program like Medicaid or food stamps from 2009 through 2012, the Census Bureau reported this week, 56 percent stopped participating within 36 months, while 43 percent lingered between three and four years. Nearly one-third quit receiving benefits within one year. (link to Census data)
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan ...


    What would Jesus tell House Speaker Paul Ryan about looking after the sick and the needy?
    Mandel Ngan/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

    A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched his clothes in hope of a cure. Jesus turned to her and said: “Fear not. Because of your faith, you are now healed.”

    Then spoke Pious Paul of Ryan: “But teacher, is that wise? When you cure her, she learns dependency. Then the poor won’t take care of themselves, knowing that you’ll always bail them out! You must teach them personal responsibility!”

    They were interrupted by 10 lepers who stood at a distance and shouted, “Jesus, have pity on us.”

    “NO!” shouted Pious Paul. “Jesus! You don’t have time. We have a cocktail party fund-raiser in the temple. And don’t worry about them — they’ve already got health care access.”

    Jesus turned to Pious Paul, puzzled.

    “Why, they can pray for a cure,” Pious Paul explained. “I call that universal health care access.”

    Jesus turned to the 10 lepers. “Rise and go,” he told them. “Your faith has made you well.” Then he turned back to Pious Paul, saying, “Let me tell you the story of the good Samaritan.

    A man was attacked by robbers who stripped him of clothes, beat him and left him half dead. A minister passed down this same road, and when he saw the injured man, he crossed to the other side and hurried on. So did a rich man who claimed to serve God. But then a despised Samaritan came by and took pity on the injured man. He bandaged his wounds and put the man on his own donkey and paid an innkeeper to nurse him to health. So which of these three should we follow?”

    “Those who had mercy on him,” Pious Paul said promptly.

    Jesus nodded. “So go ——”

    “I mean the first two,” Pious Paul interjected. “For the Samaritan’s work is unsustainable and sends the wrong message. It teaches travelers to take dangerous roads, knowing that others will rescue them from self-destructive behaviors. This Samaritan also seems to think it right to redistribute money from those who are successful and give it to losers. That’s socialism! Meanwhile, if the rich man keeps his money, he can invest it and create jobs. So it’s an act of mercy for the rich man to hurry on and ignore the robbery victim.”

    How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven,” Jesus mused to himself. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven.”

    “Let me teach you about love, Jesus — tough love!” Pious Paul explained. “You need a sustainable pro-business model. And you need to give people freedom, Jesus, the freedom to suffer misery and poverty.”

    “The Lord God has anointed me to bring good news to the poor,” Jesus replied, emphasizing the last two words. Then he turned to a paralyzed beggar at his feet. “Stand up!” Jesus told the man. “Pick up your mat and go home.” As the man danced about joyfully, Pious Paul rolled his eyes dismissively.

    “Look, Jesus, you have rare talent, and it should be rewarded,” Pious Paul said. “I have a partner, The Donald, who would like to work with you: He’d set up a lovely hospital, and the rich would come and pay for you to heal them. You’d get a percentage, and it’d be a real money-spinner. Overhead would be minimal because every morning you could multiply some loaves and fishes. You could strike it rich!”

    Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God,” Jesus said. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received comfort.”

    “Oh, come on, Jesus,” Pious Paul protested. “Don’t go socialist on me again. Please don’t encourage class warfare. The best way to help the needy is to give public money to the rich. That then inspires the poor to work harder, galvanizes the sick to become healthy, forces the lepers to solve their own problems rather than kick back and depend on others. That’s why any realistic health plan has to focus on providing less coverage for the poor, and big tax benefits for the rich. When millions of people lose health care, that’s when a country is great again!”

    From everyone who has been given much,” Jesus told him, “much will be required.”

    “Well, sure, this hospital would have a foundation to do some charity work. Maybe commissioning portraits of The Donald to hang in the entrance. But let’s drop this bleeding heart nonsense about health care as a human right, and see it as a financial opportunity to reward investors. In this partnership, 62 percent of the benefits would go to the top 0.6 percent — perfect for a health care plan.”

    Jesus turned to Pious Paul on his left and said: “Be gone! For I was hungry and you gave me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; and I was sick, and you did not help me.”

    “But, Lord,” protested Pious Paul of Ryan, “when did I see you hungry or thirsty or sick and refuse to help you? I drop your name everywhere. And I’m pro-life!”

    Truly, I say to you,” Jesus responded, “as you did not help the homeless, the sick — as you did not help the least of these, you did not help me.”




    And The Lord said:

    Psalm 37:25 I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread.

    Hebrews 13:5
    Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, for God has said: "Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you."

    Proverbs 10:3
    The LORD will not allow the righteous to hunger, But He will reject the craving of the wicked.


    Proverbs 13:22
    A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, And the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous.

    Isaiah 41:17
    "The afflicted and needy are seeking water, but there is none, And their tongue is parched with thirst; I, the LORD, will answer them Myself, As the God of Israel I will not forsake them.

    Do you and the new york times trust God Anna?

    Please show scripture where Jesus said to take what is your neighbors and give it to the causes you determine.

    Does the New York Times offer who is to be given to and who is to be destroyed when they fake being "Jesus"?

    The real Jesus (God) Matthew 7:22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly,I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    By the time you have to bail them out or employ them, most of the things a family can do should already have been done. I wasn't thinking of the family as a safety valve which is also what they can do.

    Many people in our social safety network did not have the type of family that is most effective at producing happy productive members of society.

    A loving responsible father is absolutely essential for this type of family.

    But even after children have started their own families, the original family can do many things to get them back on their feet and prevent them from becoming part of the social safety net.

    Women and children can be provided for while the father can seek employment nationwide or even worldwide if he has skills. Tying yourself down to one locale is what prevents families from having the best possible job available or even a decent paying job.


    Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
    If things were as intended, no one would want. For anything.
    <a href=http://theologyonline.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23146&d=1455650224 target=_blank>http://theologyonline.com/attachment...6&d=1455650224</a>

    "Around the country, progressive bullies have attacked Christians for daring to put their faith ahead of the pet causes of those who feign compassion while destroying life-giving liberties. What we are seeing is a scorched-earth, take-no-prisoners approach as the wildfire burns across our land. It is not enough that Christians be quiet. Christians must be silenced and punished. Their faith cannot be respected. Legislation that ensures people are free to live and work according to their faith without fear of being punished by government must be stopped and decried as discrimination...There is one key reason that those on the Left must force their beliefs on the rest of us: if they didn't force their craziness on us, we would never embrace it." ~Erick Erickson

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