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Thread: And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    If you're paying taxes in submission to civil authorities, it can hardly be called robbery. After all, you're doing what you're Biblically admonished to do, right?

    1 Peter 2:13-17

    Submit yourselves for the Lordís sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is Godís will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as Godís slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.
    It is robbery if they believe we already pay enough taxes yet still impose taxes. I doubt any politician would be ignorant enough to tell us it is " charity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by pondsbb View Post
    It is robbery if they believe we already pay enough taxes yet still impose taxes. I doubt any politician would be ignorant enough to tell us it is " charity".
    But that's not how submission works, is it?
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    In fact, here's something interesting. When I did a search for "submission to civil authorities" because I didn't remember where it was in the NT, the first site that came up was Bible.org.

    Take a look at this:

    So far, in verses 13 and 14, submission is viewed in the context of authority, and those to whom we are to submit are civil authorities. Submission is not only to be granted to the king, the ultimate authority, but to all of his agents. As I understand Peter, this not only means men in prominent positions of power such as governors but those who act on their behalf, the civil servants who carry out the functions of government on our level. Peter expects us to respond to these agents of authority as though they were the supreme human authority whom they represent.

    The purpose of government and those who govern is completely consistent with Peter’s call for excellent conduct and submission to civil authorities: “the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.” While the form of government may differ, the task is the same. Even a pagan and corrupt government is better than none at all. As bad as communism may seem to us, the people of Yugoslavia were better off under communism than the people of Bosnia are today.

    That's pretty-mindboggling, that part about Yugoslavia.

    This Bible.org interprets Scripture to say that you should submit to a corrupt government. (Which many think ours is.)

    I'm sure a lot of Christians would differ with the interpretation, but even if you dial it back to just knowing a portion of your taxes is going to help those less fortunate than yourself, it seems that paying taxes would fall under that submission.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    But that's not how submission works, is it?
    It is according to the type of government and how they govern. They make the rules.

    Why are you so against our government wanting to give the middle class tax breaks? Then try and act like our government taxes for charity reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pondsbb View Post
    It is according to the type of government and how they govern. They make the rules.
    Yes, they do make the rules, and part of the rules is paying taxes.

    Why are you so against our government wanting to give the middle class tax breaks? Then try and act like our government taxes for charity reasons.
    What? You mean you don't mind the government giving you a break, but you don't want it to give someone else a break?



    That article at Bible.org is pretty long, but it's an interesting look at a Christian (even if not shared by all Christians) view of submission to civil authority. It does make me wonder how you could square that with not wanting to pay taxes which would support social safety nets for the less fortunate among us.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Yes, they do make the rules, and part of the rules is paying taxes.



    What? You mean you don't mind the government giving you a break, but you don't want it to give someone else a break?
    So funny...You want to talk submission to government when your entire original post is about bringing down government decisions in the guise of " charity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by pondsbb View Post
    So funny...You want to talk submission to government when your entire original post is about bringing down government decisions in the guise of " charity".
    Sure I want to talk about it. It's an interesting topic.
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    What's the point of being a Christian NATION? There is certainly enough pressure from the right for such things they want but they seem to side with greed most everywhere else even though they probably won't benefit from it.

    The rich get richer and the poor get the picture. Isn't there some principal about the love of money and the love of fellow man that might play some part in our government. Why is a welfare state for the rich OK?
    Not only does Trump lack a moral compass, his conservative supporters who consider the rest of to be no better than "heathens," have chosen to align themselves with the one individual who refuses to acknowledge the need for confession and forgiveness from sin!

    Conservative Americans have turned Christianity on its head, they elevate wealth, military power, and pious religiosity, while denigrating the poor, disabled and anybody who appears different.

    America cannot withdraw behind a moat and wall with the expectation that the military and the prior sector will solve our problems!
    Last edited by jgarden; March 16th, 2017 at 09:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pondsbb View Post
    Jesus would never tell the government to rob the middle class and give it to the poor. Charity must come from one's heart and not a Robin Hood situation.

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    Ah, yes he would. but he would hit the rich the hardest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by exminister View Post
    What's the point of being a Christian NATION? There is certainly enough pressure from the right for such things they want but they seem to side with greed most everywhere else even though they probably won't benefit from it.

    The rich get richer and the poor get the picture. Isn't there some principal about the love of money and the love of fellow man that might play some part in our government. Why is a welfare state for the rich OK?
    Individuals can help people much better than the government can. Government programs for the poor help bureaucrats and social service workers more than they help the poor.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Individuals can help people much better than the government can. Government programs for the poor help bureaucrats and social service workers more than they help the poor.



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    Must be why even charity organizations are ever in need of some sort a government overseer.

    Must be why government had to step in...to begin with.

    Your lolipop world would still have all those thousands of child sweatshops that once populated our nation - but for a government FORCED by the FEW to HAVE TO force those lining Politician's pockets into the fact that enough was enough...

    Again, you prove yourself beyond inept in your understanding of the basic "heart" of far too many.

    Run a business servicing other businesses - a good 80-85% or more are for ever pulling all sorts of nonsense against both their just as many slimy vendors, as well as against their unsuspecting clients.

    And just as in "Religious" bigotry - in all its' corrupt forms - God help the "trouble making" whistle blower the Government is often then has to be FORCED to step in to protect.

    Because, in your lolipop world, people are ever o so concerned for their fellow man.

    Ask Hitler's millions of slaughtered victims about the kind hearts of the many, under your Populist self-delusion.

    Wake up already, bro - the night...is far spent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    Must be why even charity organizations are ever in need of some sort a government overseer.

    Huh?

    Must be why government had to step in...to begin with.

    Huh?

    Your lolipop world would still have all those thousands of child sweatshops that once populated our nation - but for a government FORCED by the FEW to HAVE TO force those lining Politician's pockets into the fact that enough was enough...

    Waiting for you to make a direct response to my claims.

    Again, you prove yourself beyond inept in your understanding of the basic "heart" of far too many.

    What? I still have no idea what you are talking about.

    Run a business servicing other businesses - a good 80-85% or more are for ever pulling all sorts of nonsense against both their just as many slimy vendors, as well as against their unsuspecting clients.

    Again....what the hell are you talking about?

    And just as in "Religious" bigotry - in all its' corrupt forms - God help the "trouble making" whistle blower the Government is often then has to be FORCED to step in to protect.

    When are you going to make a direct response to my claims?

    Because, in your lolipop world, people are ever o so concerned for their fellow man.

    Some people are.

    Ask Hitler's millions of slaughtered victims about the kind hearts of the many, under your Populist self-delusion.

    What....Hitler? Now I know you're just rambling on.

    Wake up already, bro - the night...is far spent

    I'm awake....you need to wake up and make an actual response to my claims.


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    Have you helped someone before? Could the government do a better job than you at what you did?

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    How much money is spent on programs for the poor? How much of that money goes to bureaucrats? How much of that money goes to social service workers?

    How many of those people receiving government monies as their only means of subsistence have moved on and become productive citizens and are no longer living below the poverty line?

    Can you think of ways family could have moved them out of poverty?

    Can you imagine that if they were lifelong active members of a church, that same church would help them move out of poverty?

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick jane View Post
    I hope it doesn't pass, then we can all watch Obamacare collapse and the demoncrats will take the blame. Let them scramble to replace it
    We, as conservative intellectuals, should not be in the business of making excuses for bad parliamentary decisions by Republican leaders in Congress.
    - David Frum


    https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/q...t_conservative
    Last edited by jgarden; March 16th, 2017 at 10:30 PM.

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