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Thread: And Jesus Said Unto Paul of Ryan ...

  1. #151
    Gold level Subscriber kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    but it's not meeting their needs anna - you should be far enough along now to realize that

    it's allowing them to stay trapped and isolated




    much like welfare does for the inner city black
    What are their needs? What should be done? And does your answer apply to EVERYONE getting food through MOW?

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  3. #152
    Gold level Subscriber kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Can you name a single time you really helped someone where you can claim the government would have done a better job?
    Is it possible to separate the work from the funding? Perhaps you're correct that some services could be done better by non-government people, but could you still argue that the government provide the funding and then doles it out to people within the communities?

  4. #153
    Over 1000 post club exminister's Avatar
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    While some here fear an elderly widow is ripping off the government and taxpayers because she gets a good meal a week and checked in on, a major scandal has been going on with the top brass of the Navy and Fat Leonard to the tune of $35 million dollars. Wonder how many elderly widows that could feed.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...eet/index.html

    Fancy hotels, cash, prostitution, partying straight for 36 hours. Good times.

    Say I know what we need to do increase the defense budget, say $56 Billion Dollars and take it from those in need. It won't cover it but defense spending is play money anyway as W showed us.

    Russia has one broken down aircraft carrier and we have ten. Our current budget is bigger than the next seven defense budgets of other countries combined. We need to build enough nukes so eventually we can use them (why have them if you don't use them as our dear leader says) and if we use them we won't have the poor no more - Win-Win.


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...y_expenditures

    We spend twice as much as China and 10 times what Russia spends now. Maybe instead of worrying about people in need we should take a hard look at the waste and corruption in the military. Russia got smarter and did more with less. Smarter might be the way to go. Or we can stick with bravado and saber rattling.
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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  6. #154
    Over 5000 post club ClimateSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    Is it possible to separate the work from the funding? Perhaps you're correct that some services could be done better by non-government people, but could you still argue that the government provide the funding and then doles it out to people within the communities?
    Yes it does and most of it doesn't go to the recipient. Also, these people could be better served other than government.

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  7. #155
    TOL Legend annabenedetti's Avatar
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    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  9. #156
    Gold level Subscriber kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Yes it does and most of it doesn't go to the recipient. Also, these people could be better served other than government.

    Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
    That looks like just a restatement of what I responded to. You seem to be criticizing the practical application of the program, not the principle of it. Some people would argue that these programs are unjust at their base because it's redistributing wealth. Do you share that view or are you only talking about the inefficiencies and corruption that may exist?

  10. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Don't think for a minute that those frail elders don't know that the only next step for them prior to death is a nursing home. They'll do everything in their power to stay independent for as long as they can, and I don't blame them and I'm glad to have a portion of my tax dollars going to help them.
    How does this relate to what doser said?

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  11. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    How does this relate to what doser said?
    Do you disagree with what I said?
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  13. #159
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    Redistribution is another issue. Im saying some seemingly intractable problems of the poor could be solved if people had the incentive look for non governmental intervention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Do you disagree with what I said?
    Not with the elderly issue.....although , family would do that job much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Not with the elderly issue.....although , family would do that job much better.
    That's not always possible, since about a third of elderly aren't in regular contact with their families. It's easy to say "family would do that job much better," when one has family to fall back on. The average recipient of Meals on Wheels doesn't have family bringing meals by every day or two, or they wouldn't need the service, right?
    So keep your candles burning
    "Nevertheless, she persisted."
    a.k.a. starchild, starburst, stardust, sweetpea, and dumber than dirt.

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  17. #162
    Gold level Subscriber kmoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClimateSanity View Post
    Redistribution is another issue. Im saying some seemingly intractable problems of the poor could be solved if people had the incentive look for non governmental intervention.

    Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
    Specifically?

  18. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    That's not always possible, since about a third of elderly aren't in regular contact with their families. It's easy to say "family would do that job much better," when one has family to fall back on. The average recipient of Meals on Wheels doesn't have family bringing meals by every day or two, or they wouldn't need the service, right?
    I imagine there are recipients who have family that would be capable of providing more. I know for my own family, I have a sick uncle that is getting government support. Could we gather more (my parents do help some already) of our own resources to help, even if not 100%? Probably. But the gov't program is there. I wonder how many people use gov't programs without really seeking family help. There will always be people that fall through the cracks and need support but I'm sympathetic to the view that families should/could do more. Especially as caring for your family is a major Christian value. It isn't easy to define true need though. Especially without the gov't getting intrusive.

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  20. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoney View Post
    Specifically?
    A change of philosophy. A healthy family. A keen involvement in church community. It is hardly taught that poverty is brought about by a long series of choices. The exception is the African-American community.

    Once you find yourself in poverty, government is usually the only alternative if you don't already have a strong family and church community.

    We don't teach self reliance in this country and it results can be seen in our poverty problem.

    One possible solution is to take steps to make the family stronger....yes, a father based family. Scream patriarchy if you must, but it is known to work if the father is responsible and loving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    That's not always possible, since about a third of elderly aren't in regular contact with their families. It's easy to say "family would do that job much better," when one has family to fall back on. The average recipient of Meals on Wheels doesn't have family bringing meals by every day or two, or they wouldn't need the service, right?
    A much better solution to this is found in the third world and the preindustrial age. The house hold should consist of the elderly and even the very productive young who are just starting out in life. Multi family.

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